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Technics SP10 mk2
Jan Allaerts MC 1 Boron mk1 cart
Miyajima Shilabe cart
Hashimoto HM-X SUT
Siggwan (gimballed not unipivot) Cocobola 12"
Aurorasound Vida LCR Phonostage
The Truth linestage
Dave Slagle Autoformer Volume Controller
Cary 805c SET amps
Audio Note ANe-SPX speakers
Townshend Isolda speaker cables
Cardas Golden Presence interconnects
I had a grease-bearing 301, which Martin Bastin said was one of the quietest he'd ever worked on. However, I preferred a later 401, which had less rumble and a more detailed, incisive sound. Personally, I think that a well-sorted Thorens TD124 has the beating of both, and in your positon, Panos, that's where I'd be looking for a decent upgrade (which actually isn't going to be easy from your current deck).
I've owned transrotor belt drive, 401, Colaro 2010 and Lenco ptp, all sounded very much the same, I've never heard a standard lenco but from what I've read the lenco needs a lot of money thrown at it to equal a 401, I threw a lot of money at my lenco right off and it was as good as the 401. Collaro was very good but speed change was dodgy.
Now I have Denon DP80 and its better than the idlers, has the same bass, rhythm and pace and also wonderful detail retrieval. The DP80 is a different animal to other Denon dd that look the same but the DP80 has a three phase motor.
Bakoon 13r Denon DP80 Stax UA-70 Shure Ultra 500 in a Martin Bastin body with jico stylus, project ds2 digital Rullit aero 8 field coils in tqwt speakers
Office system, DIY CSS fullrange speakers with aurum cantus G2 ribbons yulong dac Sony STR6055 receiver Jvc QL-A51 direct drive turntable, Leema sub. JVC Z4S cart is in the house
Garage system another Sony receiver, cassette deck
System components are subject to change without warning and at the discretion of the owner.
There's a mystique about the idler drives that draws people to them - but there's a reason the BBC replaced their Garrards with Technics SP10 - zero rumble, absolute pitch stability and sound. I can understand the draw towards idler but I wouldn't go back to one as a main deck after living with the SP10.
Technics SP10 mk2
Jan Allaerts MC 1 Boron mk1 cart
Miyajima Shilabe cart
Hashimoto HM-X SUT
Siggwan (gimballed not unipivot) Cocobola 12"
Aurorasound Vida LCR Phonostage
The Truth linestage
Dave Slagle Autoformer Volume Controller
Cary 805c SET amps
Audio Note ANe-SPX speakers
Townshend Isolda speaker cables
Cardas Golden Presence interconnects
There may be a mystique about idler drives but I think there are more practical reasons why people are drawn to them. Sure, the Garrards are a nightmare of mechanical parts under the top plate but Lencos are fairly simple beasts and as a result are easy and cheap to fettle and that is the key to their success. Service the moving parts (motor, bearing and idler wheel) and you have a very decent deck in stock form but go a bit further and give it a decent, solid plinth supporting the top plate and you really start to get a giant killer. That's why so many people have dumped expensive belt drive decks - just look at the price of "upgrades" for a Linn etc. If you enjoy a bit of HiFi DIY then a Lenco is a great place to start. It can be upgraded relatively easily and cheaply but if you want to spend money then there are plenty of people offering improved bearings, idlers and even motors most of which are not actually necessary If on the other hand you want a plug and play solution then get a top notch direct drive like the Denon DP80 which Paul mentions. I've got a similar flying saucer type from JVC and it's a joy to use although this also benefited from a better plinth. Wth my Lencos I do sometimes worry if everything is running as smoothly as it should but the JVC just does its thing, every time. Problem is of course that these old DD's have fairly complex electronics with a lot of the IC's now unobtainable so if they blow up they are possibly irreparable. Not so the Lenco where parts are still cheap and available with plenty of on-line information to help keep them running.
So, to sum up, if you want to play, get a Lenco but if you want to plug and play then stick with your Roksan or get a top end DD but these are not cheap!
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 542
I'm mark.
Get a standard Lenco, see if you like it is the simplest solution.
It won't give you the ultimate sound, but if you like the bass driven sound (don't mix this up with quantity, rather quality) there'll be no going back.
In my beginning, I had Manticore Mantra, a friends idea led me towards L75 and ever since I've only ever been happy with an idler. I've had lots of belters including 30kg German heavyweight and LP12, but still prefer the sound of an idler.
If you can diy, ply plinth, service and reasonable arm is as far as most need to go. The souped up Lenco vs Garrard will go on forever, I prefer Garrard's but have made some very decent Lenco's
why not just buy both and have done with it?
SS
CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10
VALVE
PRE Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker
Location: Greece
Posts: 249
I'm Panos.
System1: Lenco L75 with custom plinth, SLAT, sph bearing, SG4 external power supply + Alfred Bokrand AB-309 tonearm + Denon DL103R (aluminum body) + Well Tempered 12" tonearm clone + Denon DL103R (wooden body), ASR Mini Basis Exclusive HV, Marantz CD6005, LAB12 DAC1 SE+, Hattor BIG passive + active pre, Lab12 Suono power amp, Falcon LS3/5a Gold Badge, LAB12 Gordian, Belden 8428, Black Cat Red Level Triode, LAB12 Knack MkII
System 2: Roksan Xerxes original (HiFi Inspire plinth) with Maxon ReMax motor + Audiomods Series6 + Ortofon Cadenza Black microridge retipped, ASR Mini Basis Exclusive, Marantz CD6003, Croft Micro25R + Series7R monoblocks (110W/ea), Harbeth SHL5 Plus 40th Anniv.
System 3: Marantz CD6003, Croft SuperMicroII ('R' spec by Croft, Tesla E83CC in phono)+ Series7, Snell Type EII (with bypass caps, new internal wiring, WBT nextgen 0703Cu), Mark Grant HDX1, Atlas Hyper 3.0
Location: belgrade serbia
Posts: 840
I'm gordan.
i guess it's highly personal. i think the variations of belt drives are sooo huge. probably the best deck i've heard was belt driven (platine verdier) but on the other hand i'm not a fan of SME just as i dislike anything thorens based. FWIW i really love the deck you own, my friends happily live with it for long time.
Gordan.
Speakers: Oris Swing MkII
Amps: Thomas Mayer 300b/ Hiraga La Maison de L'Audiophile 20
Preamp: Silver AVC by eng. Ferenc Lazar
Phono Preamp: Shishido LCR by Solaja Audio
Decks: Garrard 301 Martin Bastin reworked/plinthed with Fidelity Research FR64fx
Garrard 401 in eng Ferenc Lazar solid wenge plinth with SME 3012/2
Cartridges: SPU Spirit/ Koetsu Black revisited by eng. Salai/ Miyajima Shilabe
Step Up Transformers: Tango MCT 999/ Ortofon T-5000/ Lumiere SUT
Digital: Shigaclone by eng. Ferenc Lazar with Lampizator Amber II
Wires: of sufficient length
One more important thing about my Denon DP80 is its bang on speed within milliseconds. My kit is in a purpose built room in the garden and only heated when I am there, the lenco took half an hour to get up to speed, the 401 less so but needed adjusting several times before it settled. But the Denon runs right on speed regardless of anything that might try to to hold it back.
Bakoon 13r Denon DP80 Stax UA-70 Shure Ultra 500 in a Martin Bastin body with jico stylus, project ds2 digital Rullit aero 8 field coils in tqwt speakers
Office system, DIY CSS fullrange speakers with aurum cantus G2 ribbons yulong dac Sony STR6055 receiver Jvc QL-A51 direct drive turntable, Leema sub. JVC Z4S cart is in the house
Garage system another Sony receiver, cassette deck
System components are subject to change without warning and at the discretion of the owner.