Main System
Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.
Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.
Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.
CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.
Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.
Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.
Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.
Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.
Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.
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Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!
The thing to bear in mind is that there's nothing mystical going on with the product brought to light in the OP.
The majority of audio equipment complies with class 2 electrical regs, and doesn't have a protective ground on it.
Using one of the leads in question directly connects the signal ground to mains ground, which may or may not have audible effects. You could knock up a lead for less than £5.00 that may not look as pretty, but it'll do the same job.
There is one thing that isn't considered, and that's induced RFI on the ground connection.
Oh, and under fault conditions your equipment becomes toast
Chris
Common sense isn't anymore!
A scientific theory only holds for as long as it can explain known phenomena. If a phenomenon or effect is discovered, one which is independantly observable and repeatable, then the current theory has to be revised or even replaced. The new theory not only has to explain the newly discovered phenomenon but must continue to explain the previously known phenomena. And ideally it should predict new results which are then looked for to test the theory. Karl Popper showed that theories can only be falsifiable: that is, you can't prove them to be correct, you can only show them to be false, by finding a phenomenon which the theory can't explain.
With respect to 'snake oil' or other contentious devices, tweaks, or treatments, the problem is that the effects reported are not universally agreed upon: some will hear them, others will not. Thus there is little incentive to try and explain them, as some will claim there is nothing to explain.
Barry
He's suggesting that there are physical properties to audio systems that science does not know about or cannot explain but which are in fact real. The probability of this being true is very small. So suggesting it as a mechanism for how fantastic tweaks work is not especially useful. It also does not explain how manufacturers invent and develop these products when they don't have any science to work with. Is it just trial and error? Do they just throw different materials together randomly in the hope that something clicks?
We all know that they don't do that. What they do is make it look fancy, make a load of completely unsubstantiated claims for what it does, and then charge as much as the market will bear. You'd think that would be obvious to everyone. Possibly a more interesting question/topic is why it isn't.
Current Lash Up:
TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.
Location: gone away
Posts: 4,870
I'm joe.
It's a combination of the power of advertising and human gullibility. It's evident not just in hifi, but in such things as 'designer' labels, which carry a price premium not because of any intrinsic value, but because of the cachet associated with a certain name.
The key point, which Barry raised above, but which the 'believers' won't answer, is where do you draw the line? At what point does a tweak, even if free or very cheap, cross the line between 'worth a try' and 'sheer nutjobbery'? People got cross with Peter Belt because his ideas seemed ludicrous, yet they were no more ludicrous than some stuff sold by reputable dealers which cannot have the effect claimed, or which is crazily over-priced even if it does have a (minor) effect.
Location: Near Saffron Walden, Essex
Posts: 7,103
I'm Dave.
I have no problems with the 'snake oil' products. If people believe they work, that is all well and good. What I object to is the grossly inflated prices of most of these items, which could be sold for a fraction of the cost and still do the job.
Current Lash Up:
TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.
To badly paraphrase Frank Zappa...
Discussing audio tweaks without trying them for yourself (for free or very cheaply) is like dancing about Architecture.
A lot of "absolutes" getting thrown around here, just make up a DIY version see for yourself if the theory is bullshit.
Some say it is, some say there's at least SOME theory to it...just try it and find out for yourself.
No-one else curious?
AC POWER
Hardwired 10kVA balanced mains powering entire system
AMPS
Meridian 557 power Amp (Modded) / PS Audio BHK Preamp (Modded)
SPEAKERS
Wharfedale Evo 4.4
DAC
PS Audio Directstream (Modded)
TURNTABLE
Pro-Ject X8 balanced output via XLR / Ortofon Quintet Blue cartridge
PHONOSTAGE
Pro-Ject DS3 B balanced Input (TT and Phonostage powered by Pro-Ject Power box RS2 linear psu)
DIGITAL
OPPO 203 (Modded: Linear PSU, i2s output to Dac) - Roon Endpoint, HDMI input used for all things Streaming/ PS5 /AppleTV ... also good for movies apparently?
MUSIC PLAYBACK
Tweaked AP-Linux based Roon Server into Oppo 203 as Roon endpoint
Ipad Roon Remote.
Apple Music/ YouTube via AppleTV, fed to Dac via Oppo HDMI input/i2s output to Dac.
SPEAKER CABLES
Biwired: Duelund DCA10GA (Bass) Duelund DCA16GA (mid & treble) Duelund 12DCA used as jumpers (On "Blackcat Cable" Chris Sommivigo's advice - yup, even with biwire it sounds better - and it does)
INTERCONNECTS
All Balanced: Ghost+ recording studio XLR cables
Precisely, Gaz. I abhor absolutism with a passion, and indeed it has NO place on this forum, so some folks here need to re-familiarise themselves with the AoS ethos, and that this is, let me outline for clarity: a staunchly subjectivist 'ears first' forum, where the subjectivist mindset will *always* be given priority.
Staunchly objectivist opinions will only be permitted if they show due respect for the subjectivist mindset, don't descend into personal remarks, such as "nutjobbery" and the like, and most importantly also don't descend into blinkered absolutism.
If I see any more of that type of input here, it'll be removed without further warning and the thread closed. Bans will also be handed out for repeated offenders.
I can see why Neil gets so frustrated trying to have these types of discussions with folk with such deeply-entrenched views, and who are unable to express their (undoubtedly legitimate) opinions without simultaneously deriding those of others, and insulting them personally.
It also flies in the face of the healthy (sceptical when necessary) open-mindedness I value and seek to promote on this forum, as I have little time for eternal cynics (with scant respect for others of a different mindset) and who, in reality, do nothing to advance our further learning in this hobby.
I hope that this message is crystal clear!
Marco.
Main System
Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.
Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.
Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.
CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.
Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.
Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.
Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.
Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.
Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.
Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!
Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!