Vinyl or CD?

[Macca]

'Amused to Death' has quite a high dynamic range on CD and SACD http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/li...mused+to+death

You just need to turn the volume up a bit with the CD.

Ironically the 'explosion' is probably subjectively louder on vinyl due to summing of the bass to mono and the compression applied to the bass in the mastering for vinyl.

[Haselsh1]

Yes of course the very low frequencies have to be mono'd on vinyl but why should that increase the loudness..? Unless the actual level has been increased I cannot understand why it should be louder. Also, if the level were indeed increased then it would have to be compressed to keep it below the threshold surely...? This would also be true of CD.

[Macca]

Yes of course the very low frequencies have to be mono'd on vinyl but why should that increase the loudness..? Unless the actual level has been increased I cannot understand why it should be louder. Also, if the level were indeed increased then it would have to be compressed to keep it below the threshold surely...? This would also be true of CD.

If the bass is in stereo all the way down, and the bass note in question is mixed to be louder on one channel than the other, or only occurs on one channel, it will be louder in mono because both speakers are reproducing it equally. Since Roger likes his stereophonic effects I'm guessing the explosion is panned across the speakers. I've not listened to that album since it came out, which is quite a while ago now (30 years?)

[Haselsh1]

(30 years?)

Cheers for reminding me

Surely if a decent job is being done 'they' would have taken such things into account otherwise such fearsome bass would go well above the acceptable threshold for recording and mastering...? They could not possibly make such changes without watching the levels otherwise you have to resort to heavy compression like on Dark Side Of The Moon and most of Gilmour's guitar solos.

[Marco]

Martin makes a good point, Shaun. Did you ensure that when you conducted the comparison that your CD and vinyl sources were level-matched?

If not, try the comparison again, level-matched, and see whether or not you observe the same about the explosion in question. I would also add that there's more to something sounding more impressive and believable than simply the loudness of the recording.

When the musical information contained in any recording (available on digital and vinyl) is more faithfully resolved, via one method than the other, that also has the knock-on effect of making certain aspects of it sound more impressive or believable.

Marco.

[Haselsh1]

Yes the two sources were at roughly the same volume as heard by myself and Sue. The sheer expression of this particular explosion is worrying on vinyl but certainly not on CD. Another thing I do not understand about the reissue of this album is that at least one track has been completely re-recorded and is not the original track. Cannot understand why Waters would do that. The track in question is 'The Bravery of Being Our of Range'.

[Macca]

Cheers for reminding me

Surely if a decent job is being done 'they' would have taken such things into account otherwise such fearsome bass would go well above the acceptable threshold for recording and mastering...? They could not possibly make such changes without watching the levels otherwise you have to resort to heavy compression like on Dark Side Of The Moon and most of Gilmour's guitar solos.

Sorry, I don't understand what you are getting at? You have to limit bass dynamics and bass stereo effects when mastering for vinyl unless the recording itself has very little bass on it to begin with. The deeper the bass and the more the bass has been mixed for stereo effect, the more you will have to curtail this in the vinyl mastering if you don't want the needle jumping out of the groove.

[Haselsh1]

I would also add that there's more to something sounding more impressive and believable than simply the loudness of the recording.
Marco.

Oh yeah of course Marco, loudness is almost irrelevant when compared to the dynamic range.

[Marco]

Yes the two sources were at roughly the same volume as heard by myself and Sue.

Unfortunately, roughly the same isn't good enough. It needs to be level-matched (and that's where measuring comes into the equation, using a meter), because if one recording is being played even just slightly louder than the other, then it will automatically be perceived as sounding more "impressive".

That's just how our ears work

Marco.

[Haselsh1]

Sorry, I don't understand what you are getting at? You have to limit bass dynamics and bass stereo effects when mastering for vinyl unless the recording itself has very little bass on it to begin with. The deeper the bass and the more the bass has been mixed for stereo effect, the more you will have to curtail this in the vinyl mastering if you don't want the needle jumping out of the groove.

Oh yes of course but then you have to limit for all replay devices even digital ones and of course as you have already said you cannot have stereo bass on vinyl. I totally agree with your above comment. However, there is a threshold for all replay devices whether that be CD or vinyl and the engineer cannot exceed that threshold. I was always made to believe that CD was way more dynamic than vinyl but I have found that not to be true. The Waters album is an example of that as is Moroccan Roll by Brand X.