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Thread: would anyone loan me an mc sut for a trial please?

  1. #61
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: East Sussex

    Posts: 419
    I'm Nat.

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    Yes I suppose borrowing either an SUT or HeadAmp would be the ideal situation and if anyone would be kind enough that would be great and if it brought improvements I would definitely be up for making the deal permanent and buying it or another one if the loaned one wasn't for sale. Because I do really feel the Benz Micro has more to give and such a trial may also be of interest to anyone else in a similar position of trying to get more from a an MM/MC stage.

  2. #62
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Barnet, london UK

    Posts: 2,146
    I'm Adam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natara View Post
    Yes I suppose borrowing either an SUT or HeadAmp would be the ideal situation and if anyone would be kind enough that would be great and if it brought improvements I would definitely be up for making the deal permanent and buying it or another one if the loaned one wasn't for sale. Because I do really feel the Benz Micro has more to give and such a trial may also be of interest to anyone else in a similar position of trying to get more from a an MM/MC stage.
    I can offer a tiny bit of input. I used a Dynavector XXX2MK2 and a Benz Mirco Glider L2 both with a Jfet 'head amp' Amplifier (battery powered) and a Hashimoto HM-7 Step Up.
    Now the differences were there, the Hashimoto having slightly more texture and subtle detail over the frequencies. I have to say it wasn't night and day between the Head Amp and the SUT but it was quite noticeable.
    I guess thats what we are talking about at this stage of the game, the incremental differences with different equipment. I always have a slight issue with hifi lingo, articulating the differences I hear is not easy.
    But it came down to what I preferred, nothing else. It would have made me financially happier if the Jfet head amp had beat or was on the same level as the Hashimoto Step Up as there was £800 to be gained from
    the hHead amp being as good. Alas it was not. But lets get it right, the £175 (at the time) jfet Head amp gave a very very good presentation and was incredibly enjoyable. £800 difference, probably not, but who can put a price on the increments in sound quality. I did offer this advice at the beginning of this thread but was shot down in flames for daring to add the Jfet amplifier to the mix, when SUT advice was being asked for..
    But it would make perfect sense that this little thing can give great performance on a modest outlay. If your purse is larger and the fancy takes you, then the higher end SUT route is the way to go, if you want a 'slightly' lower level performance and save some dosh then go the other route.
    My initial review is in the link below, for what it's worth.

    btw I have no commercial interest with AD Audio
    http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...t-MC-amplifier
    Last edited by WESTLOWER; 27-11-2017 at 10:22.
    "lack of passion is fatal"


    Vinyl: Thorens TD-124mk2 / SME-312 Aluminium 'special' / SME M2-9R / STEREO: Etsuro Urushi Cobalt / Shure M3D / Ortofon SPU A95 / Cartridge Man Music Master / Shure - SC35C (US) / SAEC C3 MC MONO: Miyajima Zero B 0.7mil mono / Miyajima Premium 1.0 / Amps & SUTs: Radford STA25 mk3 / AD Audio 'Satchmo2' pre & LCR phono / Hashimoto HM-7 SUT / ETR-MONO SUT Digital: Audio Note 4.1 (with DAC5 upgrades) DAC / Roon / Tidal Speakers: Tannoy 12" MGs' in RFC custom 'Rutland' Cabinets with RFC crossovers / Tannoy ST-100 Super Tweeters Cables: LFD Grainless phono / RFC Mercury / Duelund DCA16GA tinned copper / Kimber 12TC / SW1X Audio Design USB-SPdif / Duelund DCA20GA interconnects / SW1X Audio SPDIF Aero 6 / Mains Power Conditioner / Box Furniture rack / Audiodesk Systeme Vinyl Cleaner / a very beautiful & understanding Wife!

  3. #63
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by WESTLOWER View Post
    I can offer a tiny bit of input. I used a Dynavector XXX2MK2 and a Benz Mirco Glider L2 both with a Jfet 'head amp' Amplifier (battery powered) and a Hashimoto HM-7 Step Up.
    Now the differences were there, the Hashimoto having slightly more texture and subtle detail over the frequencies. I have to say it wasn't night and day between the Head Amp and the SUT but it was quite noticeable.
    I guess thats what we are talking about at this stage of the game, the incremental differences with different equipment. I always have a slight issue with hifi lingo, articulating the differences I hear is not easy.
    But it came down to what I preferred, nothing else. It would have made me financially happier if the Jfet head amp had beat or was on the same level as the Hashimoto Step Up as there was £800 to be gained from
    the hHead amp being as good. Alas it was not. But lets get it right, the £175 (at the time) jet Head amp gave a very very good presentation and was incredibly enjoyable. £800 difference, probably not, but who can put a price on the increments in sound quality. I did offer this advice at the beginning of this thread but was shot down in flames for daring to add the Jfet amplifier to the mix, when SUT advice was being asked for..
    But it would make perfect sense that this little thing can give great performance on a modest outlay. If your purse is larger and the fancy takes you, then the higher end SUT route is the way to go, if you want a 'slightly' lower level performance and save some dosh then go the other route.
    My initial review is in the link below, for what it's worth.

    btw I have no commercial interest with AD Audio
    http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...t-MC-amplifier
    I imagine the JFeT head amp would do very well against the modestly priced SUTs.

    The fact it took over (i assume) £800 to better it with the HM-7 says exactly what I thought.

    You were right to suggest the Head amp option because it offers better VFM at the low to medium end of the spectrum. Can a high end head amp compete with a high end sut? ........ That's the question.

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

  4. #64
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

    Posts: 13,669
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

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    Having used a few SUT and head amps, I would characterise them as the head putting you several rows closer to the performance- a little more in your face if you will, the SUT giving a more relaxed presentation by comparison, a little more fluid.
    “Music has always been a matter of energy to me, a question of fuel. Sentimental people call it inspiration, but what they really mean is fuel. I have always needed fuel. I am a serious consumer. On some nights I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio”

    Hunter S Thompson

  5. #65
    RothwellAudio Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    I have now heard 3 SUTs in very good systems. A Denon SUT (320?) A Fidelity research and Hashimoto. They were all outdone by head amps or a direct to MC input.

    The SUTs don't produce an even sound. they lack the extended highs and lows of the bandwidth that a good headamp can reproduce. The SUTs sound lush and rich because they excel in the midrange. In my experience.
    Unless I missed it I don't see where you mention what cartridge has been used to come to this conclusion. Some cartridges are a lot less SUT-friendly than others.

  6. #66
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    Unless I missed it I don't see where you mention what cartridge has been used to come to this conclusion. Some cartridges are a lot less SUT-friendly than others.
    Ah, yes good point. AT33PTGII, Ortofon Vienna, ZYX Bloom R50.

    There will be further comparisons Tomorrow with Hashimoto HM-3 v Denon HA-500 with the Ortofon Vienna, Goldring Eroica and AT33ptgii. Also another cartridge. I intend to investigate thoroughly. Also have the hybrid Valve monoblocks and a Sansui AU-D9 to go with aswell.



    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

  7. #67
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Barnet, london UK

    Posts: 2,146
    I'm Adam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    Ah, yes good point. AT33PTGII, Ortofon Vienna, ZYX Bloom R50.

    There will be further comparisons Tomorrow with Hashimoto HM-3 v Denon HA-500 with the Ortofon Vienna, Goldring Eroica and AT33ptgii. Also another cartridge. I intend to investigate thoroughly. Also have the hybrid Valve monoblocks and a Sansui AU-D9 to go with aswell.



    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
    Easy fella! you may get into a head spin...
    "lack of passion is fatal"


    Vinyl: Thorens TD-124mk2 / SME-312 Aluminium 'special' / SME M2-9R / STEREO: Etsuro Urushi Cobalt / Shure M3D / Ortofon SPU A95 / Cartridge Man Music Master / Shure - SC35C (US) / SAEC C3 MC MONO: Miyajima Zero B 0.7mil mono / Miyajima Premium 1.0 / Amps & SUTs: Radford STA25 mk3 / AD Audio 'Satchmo2' pre & LCR phono / Hashimoto HM-7 SUT / ETR-MONO SUT Digital: Audio Note 4.1 (with DAC5 upgrades) DAC / Roon / Tidal Speakers: Tannoy 12" MGs' in RFC custom 'Rutland' Cabinets with RFC crossovers / Tannoy ST-100 Super Tweeters Cables: LFD Grainless phono / RFC Mercury / Duelund DCA16GA tinned copper / Kimber 12TC / SW1X Audio Design USB-SPdif / Duelund DCA20GA interconnects / SW1X Audio SPDIF Aero 6 / Mains Power Conditioner / Box Furniture rack / Audiodesk Systeme Vinyl Cleaner / a very beautiful & understanding Wife!

  8. #68
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by WESTLOWER View Post
    Easy fella! you may get into a head spin...
    Haha, I know. Its probably too much change all at once but I plan to do the SUT v Ha comparison with the AT I know well. The rest is just options.

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

  9. #69
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: The Black Country

    Posts: 6,089
    I'm Alan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WESTLOWER View Post
    Easy fella! you may get into a head spin...
    He's not called bigman for nothing, I think it must be the rarified atmosphere up there having it's effect

  10. #70
    Join Date: Apr 2017

    Location: Bristol

    Posts: 339
    I'm Tony.

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    Just to add another variable to the mix my new tube phono stage arrived today and connected to my cheapy AT630 it doesn't sound too shabby.

    The AT630 with my SS Trigon stage was a complete mismatch though with a sharp edgy sound.
    VPI Scout 1.1, Hana ML, Vanderveen MC10 SUT, WAD Phono3, Rpi3B+/Digione Signature, Xiang Sheng DAC-01, WAD KiT6550 and Reiver Edingdale SR

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