What does Flat earth mean to you?

[Themis]

Can I ask why using an existing term ("Flat Earth") for defining something so obviously different from the original definition ?

Why not choosing "Spherical Earth" rather than "Round Earth" or "Flat Earth" if both existing definitions are incomplete ?
Inventing is better than redefining.

[alfie2902]

Dave,



Indeed. Now we're getting somewhere... We're saying that, sonically (bugger all to do with the age-old stigmatised view of the word) Anthony's valve-based amps (and others like them), together with other equipment such as (but not exclusively) D/D turntables and big Tannoys, represent valid examples of the 'new flat-earth'!

People, let's bin the tired old dogmatic use of the word, once and for all, and embrace a fresh new definition!!



No doubt they would. Upgrading the crossovers removed a significant amount of unwanted coloration

Perhaps a flat response is also intrinsically linked to the term 'flat-earth'?

Marco.

Check post 43. I asked earlier if AoS was trying to re-write the definition of 'Flat Earth' & Steve answered "NO" I think you two need to agree on this if it's what you're trying to do!

Now you seem to be proposing a 'New Flat Earth' including DD TT etc that were the 'Round Earth' measured well products of the time that the 'Flat Earth' Linn etc Kicked so hard against.

Take a look at yourself Marco, 'Flat Earth' principles have not changed, your views are now open to 'Round Earth' products SP10 DD TT etc. So maybe just maybe your not a 'Flat Earther' anymore!

[Marco]

Hi Alfie,

Check post 43. I asked earlier if AoS was trying to re-write the definition of 'Flat Earth' & Steve answered "NO" I think you two need to agree on this if it's what you're trying to do!

This was always about redefining the term 'flat-earth', so I'm not sure what Steve meant. I'll check out the post you're referring to.

Now you seem to be proposing a 'New Flat Earth' including DD TT etc that were the 'Round Earth' measured well products of the time that the 'Flat Earth' Linn etc Kicked so hard against.

That's *exactly* it! The flat-earth principles 'championed' in certain sectors in those days were extremely narrow-minded and blinkered. Our redefined view of the term encapsulates what we think it should really mean. Is it sinking in yet?

Take a look at yourself Marco, 'Flat Earth' principles have not changed, your views are now open to 'Round Earth' products SP10 DD TT etc. So maybe just maybe your not a 'Flat Earther' anymore!

Alfie, mate, you need to start reading what I've written properly, particularly what I've recently added to the ethos section of the forum!! What you're saying implies that I've completely changed and abandoned my principles with hi-fi, which I've already stated I haven't. This is obvious from what I've written there in terms of how I like music presented.

Try reading it again and digesting it properly.

I'm simply no longer a 'flat-earther' in terms of how you may view the definition, that's all.

If you're not getting the message, that's fine. I think that we should move on and just agree to disagree, otherwise we'll continue going round in circles... We didn't expect to win everyone over, after all.

What's important is that some people are getting the message, which indicates that what we set out to achieve has largely been a success

Marco.

[Steve Toy]

We're not redefining flat earth at all, we are merely interpreting it exactly as TonyL, Joe Petrik and others did on Pink Fish back in 2001/2002 as being a state of mind and way of evaluating hi-fi and enjoying your music collection. These guys must be acknowledged for defining flat earth else we are simply guilty of plagiarism.

A few others could do a bit af reserach into this in order to abandon their preconceptions and negative associations with certain brands with a very sheep-like following that actually goes against FE principles.

[Marco]

We're not redefining flat earth at all...

Ok, let say that we're redefining it in terms of the narrow-minded and blinkered way it was portrayed in certain sectors during the 70s and 80s.....

Agreed?

That's what I meant by 'redefining' it.

Marco.

[Themis]

That's *exactly* it! The flat-earth principles 'championed' in certain sectors in those days were extremely narrow-minded and blinkered. Our redefined view of the term encapsulates what we think it should really mean. Is it sinking in yet?

Marco, it seems to me like a "the others are wrong" definition...
It's hard to define something by simply opposing it to "the others' narrow-mindedness". A negativily-oriented definition is almost always wrong, simply because you can never draw a clear line where arguments fall entirely on one side or another. You have (inevitably) always some on the line.

So, a "others are wrong" definition always ends up creating self-negation arguments. Trust me, logic is my job.

[Steve Toy]

The Technics and other DD turntables have been chosen for their involving and musicality not for how they measure. The concept of the FE being a method of evaluation is very simple but for the fact that certain people can't see past the Linn/Naim association.

[Marco]

You're not wrong, Dimitri

However, like I said, we didn't expect to win everyone over with this argument. As long as we encourage people to challenge their preconceptions, and some can see where we're coming from, this exercise will have been a success

Marco.

[Themis]

The Technics and other DD turntables have been chosen for their involving and musicality not for how they measure.

Well, perhaps. But they were engineered to measure best : Matsushita used their best engineers (and a lot of money and R&D) to make a perfect turntable. In this particular case, these TT are full "Round Earth" ones : if they measure well, they sound well.

[alfie2902]

Hi Alfie,



This was always about redefining the term 'flat-earth', so I'm not sure what Steve meant. I'll check out the post you're referring to.



That's *exactly* it! The flat-earth principles 'championed' in certain sectors in those days were extremely narrow-minded and blinkered. Our redefined view of the term encapsulates what we think it should really mean. Is it sinking in yet?



Alfie, mate, you need to start reading what I've written properly, particularly what I've recently added to the ethos section of the forum!! What you're saying implies that I've completely changed and abandoned my principles with hi-fi, which I've already stated I haven't. This is obvious from what I've written there in terms of how I like music presented.

Try reading it again and digesting it properly.

I'm simply not a 'flat-earther' in terms of how you may view the definition, that's all.

If you're not getting the message, that's fine. I think that we should move on and just agree to disagree, otherwise we'll continue going round in circles... We didn't expect to win everyone over, after all.

What's important is that some people are getting the message, which indicates that what we set out to achieve has largely been a success

Marco.

Marco

You always state we should be open minded, which I strongly agree with.

'Flat Earth' principles are not so open minded. We know thats why TT like the SP10 etc suffered. There's loads of Jap crap being re-discovered, that were very very good at the time, they were totally shunned at the time because of the 'Flat Earth' movement. Labels like 'New Flat Earth' do not promote open mindedness IMO, there's no need for labels, even less need for a label like 'New Flat Earth' that seems to be in the middle of 'Flat & Round Earth'. Labels are destructive & I don't need to sit under the umbrella of one, I am to open minded for that!