Calling all SL-1200/1210 owners!

[Marco]

No worries, mate. That's what we're here for

The other unknown variable of course is what his valve MM stage is like. I've got no idea how it will compare to the one in my Croft, and so don't know what the combined effect will be of his MM stage and the A23 with your 103 Pro compared to what I get, and also with his MC head amp in the equation. If he's voiced his valve preamp and MC headamp together then this may be the best sounding combination.

I'll certainly be interested in your thoughts, so I expect a full write-up

Let me know when you're ready to borrow the A23. I can let you have it for a week so you are able to conduct proper and meaningful tests.

Marco.

[scoobs]

Cheers Marco. The pre is a simple design based on the kondo m7, and uses NOS Mullards like your Croft.

[Marco]

Ah, I wondered. I was going to ask you what valves it used.

Sounds good. I'm sure you'll have some interesting listening ahead

Keep me posted!

Marco.

[Gromit]

Well looky here...



A certain very nice gentleman has lent me this bog-standard 1210 for a while, as I'd been harping on about wanting to find out how one would sound.

Just fitted my old (but still low-mileage) MC15 Super into it.

I get a sneaking feeling there's a rather fine (ok bloody good) turntable bubbling away here, below the surface

[Marco]

And you'd be right to think that, Richard!

The quality of the motor unit is phenomenal. Once the deck's little 'foibles' (as I have outlined previously) have been attended to you, quite simply, have a world class T/T on your hands.

Marco.

[scoobs]

Wahey, good one Rich. Party at Gromit towers tonight! Enjoy.

[Gromit]

Just popped the Lyra into the Technics - blimey (in substitution for stronger words) it sounds good.

Obligatory porn shot...



How much would a 1210 be now if at kept in line with inflation/competition from when it was first introduced? Sure it's not as controlled as the NAS nor as 'big' sounding but it's given it more than just a slight fright.

[Marco]

Nice one, Richard. Superb pic!

Just popped the Lyra into the Technics - blimey (in substitution for stronger words) it sounds good.

Observe my earlier comments:

Basically, an SL-1210 modified as described provides a neutral platform from which to hear the characteristics of your chosen cartridge and your favourite albums in all their glory. If the cartridge has a 'warm' sonic signature, that's what you'll hear, and conversely the same if the cartridge is forward sounding or whatever. Once the weaknesses of the standard deck are eradicated the deck itself has no sonic signature of its own and acts as an open window on to the recording. There is simply little sense of a stylus tracking a plastic groove or the 'bloom', 'thickness', or curtailing of dynamics that is often associated with vinyl when compared to CD - in fact the very opposite!

And at the moment you're using it in stock form with all its inherent limitations. How can the Lyra sound so good in a 'crap, mass-produced, DJ tonearm', for example?

How much would a 1210 be now if at kept in line with inflation/competition from when it was first introduced?

Well, the motor unit itself would cost many thousands of pounds for any British manufacturer to produce - that's providing they had the engineering know-how, tooling, and technological nous to make it in the first place! A company like SME could perhaps have a stab at it but I suspect not many others! The other parts (tonearm, operational ancillaries, PSU, etc) wouldn't cost much because Technics have refined mass production down to a fine art, but that doesn't mean the parts themselves aren't any good! Quite the opposite is true because they're engineered to an extremely high level of mechanical tolerance.

I guess that if a British manufacturer were able to produce a direct-drive mechanism of the same quality as the SL-1210, together with the ancillaries mentioned above it would sell for perhaps £5-6k, but in terms of sonic performance compared to what else is currently available on the market, when fully modified as I described earlier and fitted with a decent cartridge, I would comfortably put it in the £8-10k bracket, and even then it will still compete with some truly exotic designs at many times that price purely because of the fundamental excellence of its engineering. It's a very special T/T, Richard, the likes of which are simply no longer made.

Sure it's not as controlled as the NAS nor as 'big' sounding but it's given it more than just a slight fright

I'm not surprised in the slightest. When fully modified I would expect it to completely outperform the NAS, which is an excellent T/T in its own right. Thus modified, the SL-1210 will be in a different league altogether.

Marco.

[Mike]

Well, the motor unit itself would cost many thousands of pounds for any British manufacturer to produce - that's providing they had the engineering know-how, tooling, and technological nous to make it in the first place! A company like SME could perhaps have a stab at it but I suspect not many others! The other parts (tonearm, operational ancillaries, PSU, etc) wouldn't cost much because Technics have refined mass production down to a fine art, but that doesn't mean the parts themselves aren't any good! Quite the opposite is true because they're engineered to an extremely high level of mechanical tolerance.

I guess that if a British manufacturer were able to produce a direct-drive mechanism of the same quality as the SL-1210, together with the ancillaries mentioned above it would sell for perhaps £5-6k, but in terms of sonic performance compared to what else is currently available on the market, when fully modified as I described earlier and fitted with a decent cartridge, I would comfortably put it in the £8-10k bracket, and even then it will still compete with some truly exotic designs at many times that price purely because of the fundamental excellence of its engineering. It's a very special T/T, Richard, the likes of which are simply no longer made.

Huh? .... I must be missing the point somehow.

http://www.decks.co.uk/products/deck...nics/sl1210mk5

[Marco]

LOL. You're not missing the point, Mike.

I was referring to high quality direct-drive motor units and the standards of engineering seen in the likes of the SL-1210. Outside of companies such as SME, who have genuine engineering prowess, the vast majority of T/Ts produced these days, certainly in the 'affordable' sector of the market, are by companies who don't have the necessary tooling and expertise to engineer T/Ts to the standard of the SL-1210. They utilise other aspects of their design skills instead to make their products competitive.

As far as high quality direct-drive motor units are concerned, in the British market only Technics and Stanton have units for sale of the required standard. Others such as 'Numark', etc, are clones of either Technics or Stanton units and are not finished to the same standards of construction.

There is no hope in hell of any British turntable manufacturer producing a direct-drive T/T of the 1210's quality for £375!

Is that clearer now?

Marco.