The Pain of Neutral Sound

[Macca]

You have to be wary of a falling into the trap of blaming a bad sound, or a 'souless' sound on some particular aspect without due investigation. Like the enormous TAD system they demonstrated at Cranage Hall - it was terrible but why was it terrible? I'd suggest that it was not the design of the equipment that was at fault. That seems to me to be the least likely cause.

[Marco]

You have to be wary of a falling into the trap of blaming a bad sound, or a 'souless' sound on some particular aspect without due investigation.

Yup, absolutely right. But when you repeatedly hear the same thing again and again, from the 'usual suspects', at various different venues over the years, and in the company of different equipment, it sends out a message that simply can't be ignored.

Also, aside from anything I've heard at shows, I've had considerable experience of listening to some of the gear I'm referring to in home systems, some of which belong to friends, systems I know well, and so can accurately judge what's doing what - and more often than not it has the type of presentation I've described.

The reason why my system works the way it does, which you referred to earlier, is precisely because I've married the best bits of old and new technology, and it took me a long time to 'get' what that was about, what was wrong with a lot of stuff being made now, and why the sound produced by much of it was very disappointing.

The fact is, we've gone sideways or backwards much more in audio than forwards, and thus made little *real* progress, in the area that matters most (getting equipment to sound less like 'hi-fi' and more like music), since the days when all the best (genuinely innovative) stuff was born.

Marco.

[RothwellAudio]

In terms of electronics, anything filled with huge fuck-off linear PSU(s) has a fighting chance of sounding good...

Sorry for being blunt but that's total beau lacks. A rubbish circuit is a rubbish circuit, no matter what size of transformer you use to connect it to the mains.

[Marco]

Lol - did you miss the smilies attached to that post? My comments there were tongue-in-cheek.

Yes the circuit is the most important thing, but all else being equal, I'd expect a quality, well-implemented, linear PSU to sonically outperform anything fitted with an SMPS. That's certainly been my experience so far.

Btw, one of the areas where I consider that HUGE advances have been made today is in phono stages. And yours are very good!

Marco.

[struth]

chances are it will be decent tho if they go to trouble of putting in a big decent linear though.

[RothwellAudio]

Lol - did you miss the smilies attached to that post? My comments there were tongue-in-cheek.

Yes the circuit is the most important thing, but all else being equal, I'd expect a quality, well-implemented, linear PSU to sonically outperform anything fitted with an SMPS. That's certainly been my experience to date.

Btw, one of the areas where I consider that HUGE advances have been made today is in phono stages. And yours are very good!

Marco.

Sorry, I misunderstood - I don't think I've fully woken-up yet this morning

[the little audio company]

I'm aiming for a balance between a window on the recording and something that is still fun to listen to. It's a fine line. Marco's system manages to do achieve this, so it is do-able.

Yeah, but look at the "War And Peace" signature that has to accompany it!

[Marco]

Lol - the main reason my sig exists in that format is so that if someone asks me, say, which cables and plugs I'm using, I can refer to the info on my signature, which saves me from the hassle of going to look for it!

Marco.

[struth]

Mine is there to annoy folk

[Mr. C]

You have to be wary of a falling into the trap of blaming a bad sound, or a 'souless' sound on some particular aspect without due investigation. Like the enormous TAD system they demonstrated at Cranage Hall - it was terrible but why was it terrible? I'd suggest that it was not the design of the equipment that was at fault. That seems to me to be the least likely cause.

Enormous TAD system? must have been at a different show, I feel you are getting mixed up up, maybe Windsor that year? I do not remember any Reference 1's or TAD 600 series equipment on display at that particular show Macca, perhaps you are confusing the evolution electronics with the CR-1's possibly.

Souless and terrible? in your opinion most probably, in a great many others a different opinion is held would be more accurate.

Let us look at what you are discussing a natural, open sound with no nasties at top and bottom of the frequency spectrum then.

I have two pairs of JR149's one brand new still sealed the other well used, they make pleasant sounds and would not offend anyone, do they offer a genuine reproduction of what has been recording not in a million years, does that make them a bad speaker of coarse not its a personal preference.

The Hello and welcome to the BBC type sound is antiquated its dates back from the late 40's where a plummy voiced Guardian reader would introduce the nights proceedings in a very limited band width fashion in a perfectly nice and polished voice, with very limited frequency extension at end of the spectrum due to the equipment (both recording and broadcast) being limited at the time.

So who cares? I mean who is really after a more realistic sound at all?, very few hifi buffs in the UK are. Which on the whole identifies with a large big fairly warm sound they can turn up to number 11 fill the room aplenty and not overly stimulate the tympanic membrane hey we are all happy job done. And if costs thrupence ha penny off e-bay then a few more ultra low PPM drift a year resistors for the passive pre amps

All joking aside does any know and can quantify what real nature sound is? and can you realistic replicate it?

Paul mentioned studio monitors and home styled speakers, is there a difference (taking out Yammy NS speakers )

I would suggest that many a genuine studio monitor is purely designed to allow the mixing engineer FULL access to what is going on in the recording booth no more no less, this will allow him or her to constructively mix the sound to enable the finished product to be listen to by a great many people of a large number of different capability systems from -10dB compression no bass below 120Hz and the top end rolled off at 9Khz to fully blow hifi system that can genuinely reproduce all the nuances and spatial information a piece of vinyl or digital recording can muster.

The other should be able to grant the listener many long term listening experiences whilst keep them ENTERTAINED and not just pacified with humm Jazz cats. Which the BBC LS3 type speaker is great at doing.


The question does the individual prefer the former or the latter, or possibly a place in the middle.

A good question with some quite bizarre answers!

Carry on guys, the chaps in the studio this afternoon have been royally entertained with this thread