Celestion Spares: Ditton 66/44/25. HF2000, MF500, D5.

[rodthebod]

Hi Darren

I have a pair of Celestion Studio 66's (given to me) which I have had to make new cabinets for, currently still finishing the panels off, as the originals were badly water damaged at the bases - real shame. I was considering using one of the better 66 original cabinets as a centre speaker by cutting it down above where the ABR resides to make it into a Celestion 44 3-way design. I managed to get hold of a 12" 44/66 bass driver on fleabay, and have an old HF2000 which I think I can repair (coil wires detached at either side of the coil where I think it acted as a fuse) I've already redone two HF2000's with the same issue which are now alive again.

I've have the original 66 damaged cabinet working as a centre at present and it really does sound rather good even though the crossovers are all original and bound to be out of spec. I have the full set of caps now to replace as of Ken's spec (HF Ansars/Alcaps mid/bass /Mundorf mid) for my 'new' 66's.
I am after a mid-range unit either a HF500 or better still HD500 or a 44 Mid driver so I can 'create' a working centre once I move the existing drivers into my new 66 cabinets. Do you have any?
If I was to go the 44 midrange driver route what are the changes I'd need to make to the old cabinet?
I am also looking for some MD500 mid drivers to try long term against the MF500's I already have as these are apparently better.

Just looking forward to trying out the resurrected 66's fully made up as I haven't heard them as a pair yet and it's taken many hours of work so far to get the cabinets right!

[DarrenHW]

Hi Rod,

I've seen your posts on other threads, sounds like you've got a good project ahead of you and it's exciting to read your planning on vintage Home Cinema. I've tried a few implementations for a centre speaker and (just to muddy the water) I'm pretty sure I'm settled on Bang & Olufsen's implementation of the MD/MF500 / HF2000 i.e. Beovox 5700. As stereo speakers I found the 5700's image better and are clearer around vocals but lack the excitement of the 66 implementation. I couldn't use the 5700's as main speakers but I think it works well as a centre, vocals are far clearer which I think is due to moving the crossover point (which also explains why they lack the excitement), the dreaded resonance is still apparent but less obvious than with the 66's.

I am after a mid-range unit either a HF500 or better still HD500 or a 44 Mid driver so I can 'create' a working centre once I move the existing drivers into my new 66 cabinets. Do you have any?

I have a pair of MF500's and a pair of D5's (Ditton 44 mid range drivers). I would advise against the D5 as the MD/MF500's are on a completely different, I tried a 44 as a centre and thought things were better without it connected!

If I was to go the 44 midrange driver route what are the changes I'd need to make to the old cabinet?
I am also looking for some MD500 mid drivers to try long term against the MF500's I already have as these are apparently better.

To convert to a 44 the cabinet would have to be reduced in size (I can provide dimensions if required), an enclosure built into the cabinet for the D5 (it's not a sealed unit like the MD/MF500) the opening for the MD/MF500 would have to be reduced as the D5 has a smaller diametre and the crossover for mid and woofer would have to be changed including new inductors. I do have spare 44 inductors I could send you, but you may be just as well to buy a pair of 44's?

[DarrenHW]

hi,do you still have the mf500's darren?

Sorry Jamie, I've only just seen your post Yes, I still have the MF500's.

[rodthebod]

Thanks for your views on centre speaker implementation, I would be looking for 44's as a second hand pair for sure but for the fact carriage to Malta is difficult and expensive especially for bulky items such as speakers.

Sounds as if the MF500 would be better for centre speaker usage than the D5 and is a sealed unit making it easier to fit in the 66 cab I have. I would be cutting the cabinet down, getting rid of the ABR, so correct measurements would be good to know. I would be making the crossover from scratch so if you have parts I'd be interested - MF500 and coils, I have some large unused 4mh air core coils I could modify to suit but it would be a bit wasteful. Mentioning the B&O 5700 is interesting, do you know how the crossover works on this speaker, just checked and they use a 10" philips driver and 10" ABR as well as the MF500 and HD2000, all in a very compact 660h x 360w x 300mm cab quite a feat. I would imagine the 66's breath better and have more impact with more cabinet space and the 12" units as a stereo pair, but as you said, centre speakers do a different job - midrange quality is very important as voices play such a big part of the mix.

Can you think of the best combination of modified 66 cabinet to 44 dimensions, using the Celestion units 12" bass/MF500 and HD2000 - what would the crossover be?
I was just going to copy the 66 crossover and take it from there but sounds as if B&O got the vocals right on the 5700's.
If you have an MF500 what would you want for it, oh and the coils, I'm back in the UK in March so I could bring them back with me? You have the MD500's in your 66's, how do they compare I know Ken preferred them to the lower power (50w rather than 80w) MF500?

My vintage kit projects seem to be taking rather longer than expected, I still need to finish my EAR 834P phono pre-amp (DOUK clone design), fully recapping my Leak TL12+ monoblocks and re-plinth my Goldring G99 - too much all going on at once, still I have sounds so that's good. Trying to finish off the baffle panels on my 66 cabinets today but it's taking an age to hand route the rebates, chipboard is a right pain when you have to remove so much material as it's so weak in the centre, honestly there's sod all left of the baffle panel once you've cut everything out - but that's how they did things.....

[DarrenHW]

I'll drop you a PM Rob. I'm busy as hell at the moment but I'll find some time over the weekend.

[rodthebod]

Hi Darren

Any thoughts on the MF500's and the spare inductors, they would allow me to get my centre sorted?

[rodthebod]

Hi Darren, I've just checked back on the post and Jamie also asked about the MF500's, don't want to step on any toes, please let me know what the score is guys.
thanks

[DarrenHW]

Hi Rod, Did you not get my PM 05/02/16?

[rodthebod]

Hi Darren

Checked my profile settings and they weren't on receive private messages by default, corrected that now. Many thanks for the reply and the advice.

Having thought about it more I think for now, looking at the costs involved, I'll try out some alternative midrange drivers that I have already (kevlar 5.25"), rather than splash out for the MF500's, I'd only be using one of them anyway. However, I can see the MF500's being worth the value when used as a pair in a stereo setup. There's a pair currently up on fleabay for £220!!
The 44 crossover components for the LF are ferrite core so I'd just mod some existing 4mh/2.5mh aircores I have to 3.5 and 2.2mh and cobble the others with ones I have lying about, I might need one of the smaller sizes have to check. We have an upholsterer down the road from us where I can pick up foam offcuts to make up the wadding, transporting anything of large size can get silly - one of the drawbacks living out on a rock in the med.

Of course, I'd like the MF500 as a centre midrange on my old original 66 cab (to be cut down to 44 size) to match the pair of 66's but I have to be sensible - I think after doing the clone EAR 864P phono preamp I might want to look at getting another Denon 103 - had one many moons ago, and it was my favourite coil until the cantilever snapped - know how you feel....a sad day. I'll have to fork out for a pair of SUT's to get the coils to work with the EAR MM stage - more expense - any advice here would be gratefully received.

I've almost finished the baffles now - all holes machined and drilled, but the veneer edging I picked up earlier today is too far off colour wise to the board veneer so it means another trip out tomorrow morning to go through all the roll stock the supplier has to try to match up with what I have.
Might as well try to get it as right as possible. I'll post some picks with the panels apart once I have the edging on.

I really appreciate the offer of measuring the 44 cabs, but with my limitation on transporting the cabs, it might be helpful for you to let me know the general dimensions - internal being the most important.