Richard's hi-fi ranting 'Room 101'

[WikiBoy]

Richard,

I understand why you've posted that, and I'm sure it could be the basis of a good discussion, but I'm afraid we can't be party to disputes from other forums.

James and I at times haven't seen eye to eye but I've got nothing against him personally and I simply won't allow this forum to be used as a vehicle to attack him or his forum policies.

If you can make your point more general in nature rather than specifically aimed at Wigwam then we might be able to further the discussion, otherwise I'm afraid it's a non-starter. Any attempt of you ignoring this and continuing to post in your current vein will result in non-permitted material within your posts being deleted - sorry!

Marco.

So you have joined the cartel as well ! other forums cannot be disussed. When do you go whole hog and charge £50 for industry members to post here - sell out !

Also I cannot post on Chinese valve amps as it is upsetting the members with vested interests here who are defending their slurp !

Also retailers are banned to be talked about !

So you kill the rant well done, I am sure there will be people who will be very happy and they are the ones that deserve to be ranted.

[Marco]

Richard,

There's no "cartel", mate. We (admin) have to be respectful of other forums and those who run them, otherwise this sort of subject matter just turns into a 'slagfest' with people coming out of the woodwork simply to 'have a go'.

I'm quite happy to discuss £50 trade membership fees with you, though - not that we intend to charge such a fee, or any fee, to trade members for the privilege of advertising on our site. We're nice that way

What I'm curious about is why the big beef about an annual fee of £50 to advertise on a busy audio forum with a large membership full of potential customers? I should have thought the potential return on your investment more than warrants such paltry expenditure. After all, charging for advertising space isn't exactly a novel concept. A token gesture from the admin of PFM or Wigwam of charging their trade members £50 per annum seems very fair to me. I've spent more on a good bottle of claret for my Sunday lunch.

Therefore what's the big problem? Feel free to enlighten us... If you can use the word "slurp" less than 500 times in your reply that would be a bonus

Marco.

[Filterlab]

Richard, there is no cartel.

Click on this link and read the guidelines of the forum, this was the first post put up on the site.

[Steve Toy]

So you kill the rant well done, I am sure there will be people who will be very happy and they are the ones that deserve to be ranted.

Richard,

Don't you think you've already made your point on the issue of dealers etc? To keep banging on about it indefinitely just makes us look at you and think b&t on your part and that there are probably issues within your own personality and shortcomings relating to working with the industry as a whole.

You need to put that one to bed now. Your points can be searched out within our internal search engine you know. There is no need for you to repeat yourself.

[jandl100]

There are large numbers of hi-fi enthusiasts now who refuse to buy new, ebay and forum classifieds has provided them with bargains to try and if no like sell on, it is fun and you get to hear lots of kit and compare it. Jerry is the arch proponent of this, but many many more do it. Do they need retailers - no. Do they need magazines and reveiwers - no. Do they need marketing men - no. Do they need the community at ebay and the forums - yes.

Oops - that's me! Hi !!!

I dunno, I take my eye of Richard's thread for a few days and a dozen or two pages of heated debate happen!

So, just to respond to Richard's points about me and those like me (are there any?!) (& without reading the next dozen or so pages of posts) ....

1) no, I don't need retailers. I find I've been in this hobby long enough that I generally know more than they do. I don't really believe in the demo facilities they provide either - I can get an extended home dem which is far more useful quite cheaply by buying kit and selling it on immediately if I don't want it.

I certainly don't want to pay UK RRP on anything. I like to have a constant stream of different equipment going through my system. E.g. I can get thru 4 or 5 pairs of speakers a year. Ditto amps, sources, cables.

I have a huge amount of fun doing this - and if I buy at used prices I just need a relatively small amount of funds to maintain this. The last year I kept full financial records I actually spent over £14,000 on buying used hifi gear. But I sold £12,000 worth - so the nett cost to me was £2k. A huge bargain for a very entertaining hobby, as far as I am concerned.

Coincidentally (?), the only new gear I have bought recently are amps from Richard. As far as I am concerned he has the ability to sell good product at prices way lower than competing items at normal UK RRP.

2) yes, actually I think I do need mags and reviewers - to keep me aware of new product and technologies, and for the dealer used ads (although their websites are getting better in this regard). Online forums can be useful for this - but ime the forum denizens can be quite blinkered in the stuff that they are willing to consider - the maxim "I know what I like, and I like what I know" seems to apply too often. I prefer a broader horizon. (Sorry )

3) do I need marketing men? - only to provide ads in mags in support of point 2) above.

4) do I need the online community? Ummm .... tbh, I could exist without online forums. I couldn't do what I do without eBay or, to a much lesser extent, hififorsale.com.

Online forums are fun though - and often provide access to 2nd hand goodies and their disposal.



OK - now I'll get back to reading the next dozen or so pages of this thread!

[jandl100]

Oops again - I now skip to the end of the thread and see that it has all turned sour.

Ah well, inevitable I guess.

[Marco]

Hi Jerry,

Excellent post (your longer one above)

I admire what you do, and I'm sure it's fun and certainly very educational, but you are most certainly in the minority with your approach. For me, and no doubt many others, it would be a nightmare swapping and changing kit all the time.

I like to take my time auditioning new kit to make sure it's right for me then buy it, live with a settled system for a number of years, and just simply concentrate on listening to music. I may experiment with ways of modifying existing equipment or play with cables, but that's it.

The thought of buying and selling stuff on Ebay or whatever and connecting and disconnecting it, packing and unpacking it, etc, and all the upheaval involved, not knowing whether something will be any good or not, disposing of unwanted kit, then losing money in the process, does not fill me with joy! But you obviously enjoy the process, so good luck to you

The thread has not turned sour. We're just trying to reign Richard in a bit when he goes a bit over the top or goes on and on, about the same things, like a broken record!

Marco.

[jandl100]

Yep - "My Way" takes a fair amount of time - and is a hobby in its own right.

As a friend on another forum pointed out (in exasperation!) he just doesn't have the time for all of my buying/selling shenanigans - when he gets home from work, in what spare time he can find he just wants to kick back and listen to some tunes.
And therein lies the difference, I then realised .... I'm retired (well, I quit work at 45, just over 6 years ago actually! ) so I do have the time for this ... and for many other leisure activities - like listening to music.

Yup, "My Way" is a hobby in its own right, in addition and in parallel to a love of music.

______

& yes, while I am a great fan of Richard and his hifi gear, & I like the guy (although we've never met) - he does rather get carried away and trap himself in a corner at times. (He needs to get out more, I think, and relax a bit! )

[jandl100]

To pick up on another of Richard's musings .....

I've had three (I think .... ) Chinese valve amps. No, make that four.

First off was a MingDa MC34-A EL34-based integrated amp .... just like the Icon Audio folk sell in a 'modded' version for, errr, rather more. My pure-Chinese was an excellent beast and it looked seriously cool (even the Wife liked it). Bought and sold for less than £400. A real sonic bargain.



Then there was an Opera Consonance M100S+ 300B-based integrated amp. Not sure if this was UK-modded or not - I don't think so. I bought it on eBay as ex-dem from the UK importer for 1/2 RRP. This is one of the very few bits of kit I regret selling on - it was a beaut sonically, remote control, too. If I see another at a bargain price it will be mine again!



Then there's my current OTL amps. These I am not selling. (Yet. )
Stunning sound - quite possibly the best power amps I have ever heard - but they do need to be used into an easy speaker load (that's OTLs for you, sadly).



And the 4th Chinese amp? ... a diddy Little Dot II headphone amp. It looked seriously cute, but to be honest it didn't sound any better than the headphone socket on my Sony MiniDisc player!

Yep, overall my experience with pure-Chinese valve amps at decidely cool prices is very positive indeed!

EDIT: No, I didn't import any of these myself - all used or from a dealer/importer.

[WikiBoy]

& yes, while I am a great fan of Richard and his hifi gear, & I like the guy (although we've never met) - he does rather get carried away and trap himself in a corner at times. (He needs to get out more, I think, and relax a bit! )

Can't agree with you Jerry.

When this forum started it had freedom and flexibility (need to attract members). Now it has gone the way of other forums and developed an "in-crowd" (human nature). The difference with this forum is the in crowd is largely industry based which is dangerous. They are not here to be your friend they are here to promote their products and services.

I am different and will never be part of any in crowd, I have no desire to promote nva here, but when I first came to have the freedom to say what I thought about things that are banned at other forums was brill, so I took advantage. It was the admin and mods that called it rant, for me it was venting an over inflated balloon (good description of me ). So the in crown are largely vested interests and admin and mods have been drawn into supporting their POV as they have invested in their products and services, and no one likes to look like a duck so they defend them with great volume. So the rant became Richard on AofS, which I didn't mind I quite enjoyed it. The point of a rant is to suss and winkle out the motives and disadvantages and problems, so the vested interests are bound to consider it threatening. So look through the thread, my favourite rant subjects - Marketing men, largely allowed because Ash was stupid and played the marketing man to counter marketing man dissing, perhaps he knows no better, with admin and mods on my side I could say what I liked. Retailers, I was left to get on with it to begin with as retailers were not at the core of the in crowd but as time went on more and the distributor and tweeker members of the in crowd who use retail saw themselves threatened so pressure was put on. Forum owners, well they now want to join the cartel so once again forum owners can do what they want without being shown up. I have even got around to magazines and reviewers yet.

Regarding getting out - I have flurries on forums, it is entertainment. If you see how I work you would understand. I solder and solder until I have 5 min break (in this case longer) for a slurp of tea by my computer, check emails reply to them, check which ever forum I am entertaining myself on and reply, quick browse at other forums, TCC as well as Hi-Fi, to see if anything interesting, then back to soldering. My flurry here has come to an end, it is not fun any more, there are vested interest who are now hunting me in their posts, not giving information but trying to disrupt and insult, and I am not being allowed to insult back (a sign of the burgioning in crowd). I enjoy a good fight but not with my hands tied behind my back.

Perhaps the forum will change, they are a very dynamic environment but until then as in the immortal saying, so long and thanks for the fish.