Garrard 301 restoration project

[Woodsong Audio]

Rexton, if you are thinking about valve damper rings on a stock Garrard bearing housing, 301, or 401, I suggest investing in a granite plate, a V-block long enough to support the spindle, a dial indicator that measures 'tenths', and some precision gauge pins that correspond with the bore of the Garrard bearing housing. Measure the spindle tolerances, and the housing design. The stock 301/401 bearings were engineered with longevity, AND ease of manufacturing in mind. At that, they excel. The experience of the brand shines through, in that respect. In terms of a great turntable bearing, the 301/401 bearing is a weak link. That bearing is a turd, aside from the fact that they last forever, abused even. Careful measurements will cut through the inaccurate words of parrots, and the 'intentioned', no matter who they are. Precision measurements and engineering formulae are fairly believable, assuming that a proper turntable bearing design does not call for a wobbly, changing axis.


There are some aftermarket bearings for the 301/ 401, that suck, but be careful in thinking that the stock 301/401 bearing is the best available bearing for these decks, as it is not.

I have measured many stock 301/401 bearings, seeing an average of between 0.005" - 0.008" of side to side 'play' in the spindle, measured dry, at the tip of the spindle, with a dial indicator on a granite plate. The spindles themselves are measurably not straight ( as are at least 3 examples of commercially available aftermarket bearing spindles which are equally poor, or even worse than the stock spindles) 0.005" - 0.008", as a tolerance, is much, much bigger than the engineering figures call for, for an 'ideal', audiophile bearing, with the rpm/ load/ weight / drag figures of a theoretical bearing such as the 301/401 bearing call for, with the suggested oil viscosity of SAE 30wt, and the size of it's molecular structure. This tolerance was engineered to allow for ease in production, longevity, and manufacturing inaccuracies therein, not, !, to enable a 'top level' audiophile bearing. The closer the tolerance, the more room for error.


Then, there is the question of what is the 'best' bushing material? Best for what? Longevity? or sound? or both?

I know that there is better, as it is sitting on my rack right now. I have heard it on numerous decks now.


I have heard it mentioned that, the 301/401 bearing 'does not (really) matter', as it is 'quieter' than the level of noise of the motor, which is one of the major considerations in the ultimate audiophile performance of the 301/401. What is missed in that proclamation, is that the bearing also is a path of transmission of motor noise, to the platter (through 'boundary condition' metal to metal contact between the spindle and the bushings). Mechanical idler wheel/platter noise, as well. A quiet bearing is great. A bearing that spins very, very true to it's axis, is great. One that achieves both, and also, filters/ diminishes transmission of mechanical noise to the platter from both the motor, and other mechanical sources of noise in the 301/401, through mechanical impedence 'filtering', is another step beyond in audiophile performance of the 301/401.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Hi Chris ,

why not post some pictures to validate your findings and the products that you mention? I add to the thread tonight when I've finished work.

Andrew

[Woodsong Audio]

Yes, photos can help, but video is better for showing the actuation of a dial indicator, and it's setup. I made a video of one particularly bad example of a stock 301 shaft, showing inaccuracy in it's taper, and that it was not straight, but I cannot find it, at the moment. I am about to be away on a fishing trip for 2 weeks, very soon, so no possibility of anything new in the interim.

The 'play' I mentioned in the stock bearing is easily observable, just pull the platter, and rock the bearing shaft with your fingers. Even with the oil, it is clearly visible in the stock bearing.

Photos and video are one way of showing a bearing, especially in documenting tolerances using precision measuring equipment. Listening is critical. Lastly, long term observation of wear is also critical, as if it does not last, it does not matter how it sounds 'out of the gate'. I have these running in my shop now, with one that has been running at 78rpm, 24/7, for over 5 months now. I inspect the spindle regularly, and it is almost exactly as it was when it was installed. Most every deck I build is set up differently, different carts, different arms. With this new bearing, I have installed about a half dozen of them using the stock spindle, the common denominator has been that, these are sounding better than I have ever heard from Garrard based decks.

I have been working with the Garrards for the past 10 years, listening and observing. The past 2 years I have been working on a bearing. It is not yet fully complete, but as it is designed around a spindle of exact stock dimensions, I have them running now. The housings are complete, the spindles are not.

Every aftermarket Garrard bearing I have seen, have used balls for thrust bearings. My bearing does not. I did some initial testing with a sapphire thrust ball, but opted for something different after observing it.

Here is a photo of the housings... This photo does not mean much, as it is the inner details that count most, in a bearing, but it might make you curious.






I have enjoyed reading this thread.....

[Wakefield Turntables]

Rexton, if you are thinking about valve damper rings on a stock Garrard bearing housing, 301, or 401, I suggest investing in a granite plate, a V-block long enough to support the spindle, a dial indicator that measures 'tenths', and some precision gauge pins that correspond with the bore of the Garrard bearing housing. Measure the spindle tolerances, and the housing design. The stock 301/401 bearings were engineered with longevity, AND ease of manufacturing in mind. At that, they excel. The experience of the brand shines through, in that respect. In terms of a great turntable bearing, the 301/401 bearing is a weak link. That bearing is a turd, aside from the fact that they last forever, abused even. Careful measurements will cut through the inaccurate words of parrots, and the 'intentioned', no matter who they are. Precision measurements and engineering formulae are fairly believable, assuming that a proper turntable bearing design does not call for a wobbly, changing axis.


There are some aftermarket bearings for the 301/ 401, that suck, but be careful in thinking that the stock 301/401 bearing is the best available bearing for these decks, as it is not.

I have measured many stock 301/401 bearings, seeing an average of between 0.005" - 0.008" of side to side 'play' in the spindle, measured dry, at the tip of the spindle, with a dial indicator on a granite plate. The spindles themselves are measurably not straight ( as are at least 3 examples of commercially available aftermarket bearing spindles which are equally poor, or even worse than the stock spindles) 0.005" - 0.008", as a tolerance, is much, much bigger than the engineering figures call for, for an 'ideal', audiophile bearing, with the rpm/ load/ weight / drag figures of a theoretical bearing such as the 301/401 bearing call for, with the suggested oil viscosity of SAE 30wt, and the size of it's molecular structure. This tolerance was engineered to allow for ease in production, longevity, and manufacturing inaccuracies therein, not, !, to enable a 'top level' audiophile bearing. The closer the tolerance, the more room for error.


Then, there is the question of what is the 'best' bushing material? Best for what? Longevity? or sound? or both?

I know that there is better, as it is sitting on my rack right now. I have heard it on numerous decks now.


I have heard it mentioned that, the 301/401 bearing 'does not (really) matter', as it is 'quieter' than the level of noise of the motor, which is one of the major considerations in the ultimate audiophile performance of the 301/401. What is missed in that proclamation, is that the bearing also is a path of transmission of motor noise, to the platter (through 'boundary condition' metal to metal contact between the spindle and the bushings). Mechanical idler wheel/platter noise, as well. A quiet bearing is great. A bearing that spins very, very true to it's axis, is great. One that achieves both, and also, filters/ diminishes transmission of mechanical noise to the platter from both the motor, and other mechanical sources of noise in the 301/401, through mechanical impedence 'filtering', is another step beyond in audiophile performance of the 301/401.

Yes, photos can help, but video is better for showing the actuation of a dial indicator, and it's setup. I made a video of one particularly bad example of a stock 301 shaft, showing inaccuracy in it's taper, and that it was not straight, but I cannot find it, at the moment. I am about to be away on a fishing trip for 2 weeks, very soon, so no possibility of anything new in the interim.

The 'play' I mentioned in the stock bearing is easily observable, just pull the platter, and rock the bearing shaft with your fingers. Even with the oil, it is clearly visible in the stock bearing.

Photos and video are one way of showing a bearing, especially in documenting tolerances using precision measuring equipment. Listening is critical. Lastly, long term observation of wear is also critical, as if it does not last, it does not matter how it sounds 'out of the gate'. I have these running in my shop now, with one that has been running at 78rpm, 24/7, for over 5 months now. I inspect the spindle regularly, and it is almost exactly as it was when it was installed. Most every deck I build is set up differently, different carts, different arms. With this new bearing, I have installed about a half dozen of them using the stock spindle, the common denominator has been that, these are sounding better than I have ever heard from Garrard based decks.

I have been working with the Garrards for the past 10 years, listening and observing. The past 2 years I have been working on a bearing. It is not yet fully complete, but as it is designed around a spindle of exact stock dimensions, I have them running now. The housings are complete, the spindles are not.

Every aftermarket Garrard bearing I have seen, have used balls for thrust bearings. My bearing does not. I did some initial testing with a sapphire thrust ball, but opted for something different after observing it.

Here is a photo of the housings... This photo does not mean much, as it is the inner details that count most, in a bearing, but it might make you curious.






I have enjoyed reading this thread.....

You will have several massive problems shifting those bearings in the UK, firstly import duty & tax, secondly your in the USA. There have been numerous bearing upgrades produced in the UK and we seem to be a sceptical lot over here, we need good quality evidence that what you have to offer actually does what it says on the tin. There have several bearings and upgrades which have promised many things and quite often not delivered or even damaged equipment. The Kokomo bearing upgrades and the Super Red Beard bearing being good examples. There is also the classic turntable company bearing, the Bastin modified bearing, the Loricraft upgraded bearing, the NWA bearing and several others, your in a very crowded market. It's ok quoting tolerances and bearing types but to be completely brutal you need reviews in good quality publications and a collection of people who have used and bought your bearing who can testify that it brings a sonic upgrade. I wish you well with your development and hope it's a massive sucsess. If you need a tester in the uk I'm more than happy to help out.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Thats just showing off!

[Woodsong Audio]

I did not disappear, I have been traveling, and am still in the midst of it. My posts will be very spotty for the next 2 weeks. Time for some much needed vacation!

Thanks for your response, Rexton. Yes, I have seen the work of all of those companies mentioned. I have studied examples of all those bearings, in detail. Being one of the very few builders of Garrards in the US, I see them shipped to me from the various builders from around the world.

All of those bearings, with the exception of the Redbird bearing, use balls as a thrust contact. Mine does not. Nor does my bearing use phosphor bronze, or sintered bronze as a liner.

Cheers!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Have you finished your travels yet Chris?

[Wakefield Turntables]

I've just ordered the Orsonic headshell for the 3012 and a lovely solid copper record weight for the 301. Pictures will be posted when they arrive, one part has to come from Japan whilst the other is coming from Sweden.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Orsonic head shell arrived today, looking forward to having a play over the weekend.

[Wakefield Turntables]

DSCN2425.jpg

A bit of 301 porn, Denon 103M + NOS Orsonic headshell.