NEBO 6 set for November 2015

[petrat]

IGaz had brought along his enormous Nick Gorham single ended valve power amp but we had issues with it motorboating = apparently due to the mains which at tea-time had dipped down to 180 volts. Someone at National Grid obviously needs a kick up the arse.

You should have rigged a direct line from Hartlepool nuclear power station
When I worked in the industry years ago, the government had a strict policy of siting nuclear stations in very remote locations, in case of catastrophic accidents. For some reason, they made an exception for Teesside ...

[Macca]

They probably figured that even if there was a catastrophic accident no-one would notice the difference....

[VesaLato]

Not really fair to say a winner as such but for me, Ali's Firebottle with all his mods had it.

Sadly the NVA stage didn't get an outing as there was an unidentified issue which led to the loss of the right channel output. I won't say anymore on this other than I tried various preamps and cables and couldn't figure it out. The owner will be speaking to its maker to get to the bottom of it.

Sadly had to be postponed.

Too bad... Hopefully you can pull it out next time.

[Arkless Electronics]

Ahh, yes, that would certainly do it, that would cause the HT regulator to run out of headroom and the result will be as described. I don;t feel so bad if the mains was that low :-)

228V not 180V. Still the lowest I've seen it!

[Marco]

Good write-up, Martin. I concur with many of your observations, so will quote from your post, in order to add mine:

Best NEBO yet. Massive thanks again to Steve 'Progmeister' Petch for organising this and doing the whole 'Jools Holland' thing. If you imagine these events as solemn and sombre affairs you couldn't be more wrong. It is more like a really good stag night with great music and hi-fi. Good to see everyone again and to meet Brian, Gaz, Jezz and Colin for the first time.

+1. A big thanks again to Steve, Rich and all who made this NEBO possible. It's always fun and educational not only to listen to new kit, but assess your own in a totally different context! Great meeting all the lads again, and for the first time Jez and rossman (Paul), plus the two local lads, the names of whom I forget, who popped along too for a while.

'You can never get a hi-fi system to approach the dynamics of a live performance' is something you often hear said. (You'll have to imagine the adenoid-laden voice). Well, think again! Add on to that a truly holographic soundstage (which would probably have been even better given a more optimal set up than the room allowed). You recall the Hair Bair Bunch and their invisible motorcycle? This was like an invisible band playing right in front of you.

I agree about Gordon's system. I mentioned on his Gallery thread that I rated the design of the speakers, and again my gut feeling was proven correct. They produce a very 'live' and believable, musical sound, which was right up my street. However, there was much more to the success of his system than just the speakers, which clearly represented a culmination (although still work in progress) of a fundamental understanding of what he wanted to achieve, and how to achieve it - and the superb sound we all heard and enjoyed, ably demonstrated that!

Well done, mate

Absolutely not pipe and slippers, though, This was a very uncompromising system. If you heard some of the crappy-sounding but mega-expensive systems at the Cranage Hall show in the summer well this system is what they should have sounded like - but at a fraction of the cost.

Totally agree - and it highlights the difference between mega-expensive (commercial) systems, which are expensive for mostly the wrong reasons, and a carefully thought out and assembled one, by someone with a passion for reproducing recorded music to the highest standard, and a desire to get the biggest bang for his buck. That is precisely why we advocate that approach on AoS - simply because it works!

Colin Topps showed his new Norge stand mount speakers with a system comprising A Nick Gorham transformer passive, Conrad Johnson valve power amp and one of those Dutch valve cd players. Y'all know I am not keen on small speakers or valves being in CD players but it was a quality and involving sound. We also had a listen to the same system with his much larger Edingdale speakers which had no problems filling the very large room with excellent sounds, although I think that was later.

As you said, the Eddies were the one constant, throughout the day, and no-one really said much about them, but more often than not were chosen to accompany the equipment demonstrated, which for me, says it all: they simply did their job, without any fuss or fanfare. I have to say, however, that at £1500 these speakers are an unmitigated BARGAIN, and do things sonically and musically, that most £5k commercial speakers don't, so keep up the good work, Colin!

Ken (Qwin) showed a work in progress which is his active Yamaha NS1000M system, again powered by one of the big Nakamichi 7 channel amps. I thought Ken was getting a really good sound but he is even fussier than me and reckons more tweaking is needed.

Yes, and he's right. I enjoyed Ken's system, but for me is definitely still 'work in progress', on a number of levels. Ken and I discussed that over lunch, and he agrees. The potential for his system to create a superb sound is definitely there, but in terms of the Yammies, and their respective external crossovers, he's got a bit to do yet until he gets them singing, as he eventually managed with his 66s. However, Ken has good ears, and like Gordon, a fundamental understanding of what he wants, so I'm sure he'll get there soon.

Rich B brought along his beautifully restored JBL monitors - the cabs on these speakers are so well restored it is breathtaking.

+1. Paul's done a totally outstanding job on them, carefully matching up the grain on the wood, etc, and the net result is stunning!

We just couldn't get these speakers to sound like they should, I suspect due to a variety of contributing factors, but we did not really have time to do the extensive hands-on work with them that I think would have sorted it.

Yeah, you could hear their potential, but something was causing a midrange 'suck out', such that vocals sounded as if they were being sung through a blanket - very weird indeed. I don't know enough about the system concerned, or how the JBLs have been modified internally, to comment properly on what the issue might have been. The room acoustics may also have had an effect.

However, with my apologies to Rich, it's the first time I've ever heard a pair of JBLs sound dull and boring - almost as if their inherent 'fun factor' had been sucked out of them. Fairly early on in the demo, it was suggested that they might sound better inverted, on the partnering stands, so that the tweeters and midrange units were on top of the bass drivers. That certainly helped in creating more treble energy and midrange clarity, but there was still something amiss that I couldn't pinpoint, but which I'm sure could be easily fixed.

The rest of Rich's system was excellent, in particular his Pioneer PL-71, fitted with a stock DL-103. The Pioneer always impresses me whenever I hear it, and later in the evening, once the JBLs had been replaced for the Eddingdales, and the amplification/MM phono stage changed to the Croft (which I'd brought), and combined with Ali's modded Denon HA-1000 head amp, along with the truly excellent Radford power amp, went on to produce some stunning sounds, showing just how good a T/T it is.

It's really quite obvious to anyone with a good pair of ears how much better the PL-71 is, compared with a stock SL-1200/1210. Used in that context, where its abilities were fully showcased, quite frankly, it's in a different league. Apologies to my fellow Techie fans, but it's simply the truth, and only by spending a reasonable sum modifying the Technics, in key areas, is it capable of rivalling, or outperforming, the Pioneer. Rich, I wouldn't touch that T/T, if I were you.

Passive pre-amp bake off = this sort of got going spontaneously (it is that sort of event) using the Edingdale Speakers and the Conrad-Johnson power amp - I think the source was a Squeezebox Touch. I'd rather we had used a more neutral power amp than the CJ which although it is lovely sounding is a touch 'valvey'. There were so many passives involved I'm not sure I can recall all of them but none of them failed to impress nor did any suffer from the lack of 'attack' 'slam' 'drive' 'balls' 'grip' (perm any 3 from 5) but for me the power amp made it impossible to spot any differences that existed, as they were subtle at best.

There, I'd have to disagree, as I thought there were quite marked differences between all of the passives demonstrated - although I would agree that none were 'broken', but all had their strengths and weaknesses.

For me, in the context of the test system (belonging to Colin), Ali's (TVC?) edged it overall, producing a lovely big '3D sound', with superb 'air and space' surrounding voices and instruments, and tonally, pretty much spot on. Perhaps just a touch of excess bass and midrange warmth, but overall a very addictive and musical listen - and most of all a STUPIDLY cheap bargain!

Next for me was the Goldpoint, which IMO, produced the tightest and most textured bass, and had superior 'attack', leading edge definition and overall detail retrieval, compared with the TVC, however in the test system, with Colin's smaller stand-mount speakers on demo, was a little bass-light. This wasn't a surprise, however, as I'd just spent the last month, or so, 'voicing' it for use in my system, with huge 15" Tannoys, which of course have a somewhat different presentation from Colin's little stand-mounts...

I certainly don't need more bass in my system, so (after recent resistor experiments) had deliberately chosen the Z-foils, for their crisp and detailed sound, married with their 'snappy' low-end, although one that in the wrong set-up could contribute to a slightly anaemic presentation. I suspect, had the warmer and fuller sounding AN Tants been left in, they would've suited the sonic signature of the test system much better.

However, all of that was still very useful and interesting to hear, as it fully demonstrates the advantages of fine-tuning the sonic presentation of equipment, via internal component 'rolling'. Here at home, the Goldpoint sounds spot on, as indeed was demonstrated when I put it back into the system again today.

Next best, for me, in the context of the test system, was Macca's NVA, which produced a very solid and purposeful, musical sound - one which couldn't really be faulted in any major way (perhaps a slight opaqueness to vocals, purely in comparison, though, with the best here), but to some others and my ears, lacked the finesse and addictive 'hear through' quality of the Slagle and Goldpoint. We're splitting hairs here, however, and in most other contexts, especially when the NVA is used in its manufacturer's intended one, I'm sure that such things wouldn't be noticed, or perhaps not even present.

Last for me, but not by much, was the LDR, which sounded good, but for me didn't really gel in the test system. I get better results with this at home, but yesterday it sounded somewhat 'fuzzy' and unnatural, at the top end, although the midrange was beautifully lucid and communicative. Bass was tight, punchy and extended. Having listened for a while now to the LDR, my thoughts are that in many ways it is excellent, but undoubtedly a little coloured sounding, although in a pleasantly addictive and inoffensive way.

As ever, however, with all these passives, results obtained are massively system dependent.

Gaz had brought along his enormous Nick Gorham single ended valve power amp but we had issues with it motorboating = apparently due to the mains which at tea-time had dipped down to 180 volts. Someone at National Grid obviously needs a kick up the arse. When it was briefly working (through the Edingdales and with a Densen active pre) - it sounded amazing - we tried it much later when the mains had recovered and it again proved its worth although it could not drive the speakers loud enough in the huge room for some of the crowd - I thought it was fine but obviously I listen at whisper levels compared to these folk - no names!

Lol - no idea who you could possibly mean

Agreed, though. Gaz's amp, which Nick designed, sounded utterly sublime for the few minutes it worked, as a result of the mains problems described, and you could clearly hear its talents, making (sorry Colin) the Conrad Johnson sound contrived and rather synthetic, in comparison. From the brief bit I heard, in conjunction with Gaz's Densen preamp, it was obvious this is a truly top-notch valve amp, emanating in no small part, I suspect, from the talents of the superb (and huge) hand-wound transformers.

I know from experience, with my copper amp, how much (when done well) that aspect of valve amp design matters!

Later, when the mains supply of the venue had come 'back up to speed', as it were, and I had a more extended listen to Gary's amp, my initial thoughts were simply reinforced. It has that 'effortless musicality', 'open-window' effect, and ability to draw you into the heart of the music, which only the best amplifiers out there of any description can deliver, and ably demonstrates once again, that it is impossible to produce truly great valve amplifiers on the cheap. Furthermore, this sounded like no other single-ended 300B amp I've heard before, possessing the tightest, most solid and extended bass I've heard from the best KT88/120 push-pulls.

The only comment I'd make, and it's purely a personal one, which I've always held in reference to the single-ended vs. push-pull debate, is that whilst 7.5W may be fine in most home environments, clearly it isn't outside of that, when much larger rooms are used. If it were my amp, I wouldn't want it running out of steam in any bake-off where I was demonstrating it to others. Not that that was a problem yesterday, as everyone understood and accepted the limitations involved, but just purely in my opinion, I'd always want a bit more power on tap, which is why I use what I do.

Oh, and one other thing, as far as Gary is concerned, in terms of his decision about whether to go with a passive preamp or not, in my view any answer to that, based on what was heard yesterday, was totally inconclusive. Therefore, my advice would be to hold onto his Densen for the time being (which undeniably works superbly well with his valve amp) and wait until I can visit and bring the Goldpoint and LDR round, and hopefully also Ali can bring his Slagle. Only by listening to the results of that in his own system will he be able to arrive at a proper conclusion.

The best part of these events is late on when the all star system gets assembled (after a little trial and error) and the vinyl comes out. Turntable was Steve's Pioneer PL71 with I think a Denon DL103 MC, Ali's 2 box Firebottle Phono and Denon head amp and Slagle transformer passive pre into the Radford STA15 and the Edingdales. I've heard the Radford before and this only confirmed my opinion that it has to be the best sounding power amp on the planet, albeit a little power-limited at 15 wpc. Loads of good music got played including Steve's 'special interest' selection.

Agreed, although as superb as the Radford was, showing just how good it is by today's standards (and I loved it), I'd hesitate to call it "the best sounding power amp on the planet"

Also, I have to say (biased hat firmly off), I thought that when the Firebottle, as good as it was, went in after the Croft, it didn't quite scale the same heights, musically. However, that's only to be expected, given the huge difference in cost!

All in all, a superb event which, as ever, only serves to both strengthen and extend the AoS community. Thanks again, Steve - here's to the next one!

Marco.

[Jimbo]

Great to be able to attend another AOS NEBO event which I felt was up to the same standard as the previous one. A big thank you to Steve for organising this event again!

This will definitely become a firm fixture for me as it not only allows the opportunity to meet some really great people who are extremely knowledgeable but it also provides the perfect forum to listen to a wide range of equipment and music in one go.

The loose structure and amiable environment of the day really does make for both an informative and very relaxed event unlike some of the big professionally organised corporate shows. It has the feel of going round to your mates to listen to their stereo and as with all good events no one really wants to leave especially when the vinyl comes out and a suitably appropriate system is cobbled together by general consensus and then everyone just wants to listen to the music!

Martin and Marco have I feel captured the days equipment evaluation with very good write ups which I can identify very much with regarding the systems and equipment I heard so I won,t add any more thoughts other than I am always surprised at how good relatively humble and old kit can sound.

You just need the right combination and synergy!

Roll on NEBO 7!

[Firebottle]

, I thought that when the Firebottle, as good as it was, went in after the Croft, it didn't quite scale the same heights, musically. However, that's only to be expected, given the huge difference in cost!

Ah but you weren't comparing it to my best offering, the phono section of the KIN preamp. That is rather better than Ali's two box.

Must get it up to you for a personal bake off

[RichB]

Marco, as much as I wish the Pioneer PL-71 were mine. Steve is actually the owner. Took a while for it to come on song but it did eventually.

I totally get what you mean wrt to the JBLs. There was something about that room seemed to suck the mid out of them whatever we tried and it certainly wasn't the amps, the A40s do this exceedingly well.

Ken's system was also a bit restrained in a similar way. Hindsight being what it, I wish I'd moved mine to the dancefloor where we had those missions rocking with the zz top later on.

Good write up though.

[Marco]

Ah but you weren't comparing it to my best offering, the phono section of the KIN preamp. That is rather better than Ali's two box.

Must get it up to you for a personal bake off

Yup, Alan, noted. Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to listen to the KIN - not sure if anyone did? If so, perhaps they could comment? You'd be welcome anytime to visit. Always happy to host the company of good folks and hear some superb kit, whilst listening to quality choons!

Incidentally, something else worth mentioning is that it was completely impossible to assess the gear Jez had brought with him (phono stage and head amp, I think), as they were put into Rich's system to demonstrate, when the JBLs were being used, and so nothing of note could be concluded from that.

Bit of a shame that, as I was looking forward to hearing what his stuff could do!

Marco.

[Marco]

Hi Rich,

Marco, as much as I wish the Pioneer PL-71 were mine. Steve is actually the owner. Took a while for it to come on song but it did eventually.

Ah - cheers for the clarification! Well then, Steve has an excellent turntable on his hands, and one I would leave alone now and simply enjoy

I totally get what you mean wrt to the JBLs. There was something about that room seemed to suck the mid out of them whatever we tried and it certainly wasn't the amps, the A40s do this exceedingly well.

Ken's system was also a bit restrained in a similar way. Hindsight being what it, I wish I'd moved mine to the dancefloor where we had those missions rocking with the zz top later on.

Fair enough, and agree that Ken's system, housed in the same part of the room, was similarly 'challenged'. Like I said, I don't know enough about all the different bits in question to surmise what the problem was. Like you say though, I suspect much of it was the room. That system playing ZZ Top boogied like a bastard!

Who's was it?

Marco.