Which CROFT pre-amp?

[Wakefield Turntables]

You need to be aware that many older Croft products weren't actually made by Glenn Croft but by his so called 'distributor'. I can't go into details but these are inferior and not worth bothering with.

Glenn has moved onto the smaller valves because, to his ears, they sound better, are quieter and more reliable. In his opinion, the amps he now makes are the best he has ever made. Certainly, back in the day when we had Croft pres using Octal valves, we did have a lot of trouble with noise and microphonics.

From my customers point of view, the Croft pre amps sound better as you move up the ladder and all offer unbeatable value for money.

Great point Dave and I do wonder if I should just plump for the 25RS. The MM stage on this little microbasic is excellent especially when coupled the the ST80 SUT and my SPU or Denon 103.

Thanks for that Croft insight Marco, it is what I suspected having heard about the potential microphonic problems with the larger Octal valves. It is a bit of tightrope to walk obtaining and running these valves in one of Glenns older designs and having reliable longterm performance. I am sure when they are working within specification and don,t start 'whistling' your onto something really special.

I have weighed this up myself and consider his latest 25 range certainly up to the job although I appreciate they can be bettered by older Croft designs +plenty of cash or other manufacturers costing even more spondoolies!

As always there are compromises to make but I am certainly happy with the glorious sound I get from my modified 25R. The new linestage does alow it to breath somewhat.

However regarding the OP ( Andrew), I would serious consider keeping your basic and have the linestage upraded to the RS and run a Croft RIAA R phono stage through this. This is Glenns recommendation for the best preamplification he can currently do with the new designs.

Yep, I've thought about getting the Croft RIAA R (see my above comment with regards the MM), I can only wonder at the sonic capabilities of the RIAA A phonostage. The microbasic phonostage + SUT gives my 4 box paradise phonostage a very good run for its money.

Hi Jim,

Yup, undoubtedly good advice there for Andy. There is definitely a distinct sonic difference between, say, a 6SL7 and an ECC83; 'night and day', actually. It's rather like comparing a 300b with a KT88...

Like you say, it's definitely 'the luck of the draw' with NOS valves of any description. However, to put it into perspective, in nearly eight years of owning and using my modded C-X daily, on average for 5-6 hours per day, I've had about three faulty valves, despite having bought (probably 100s of different 6SL7s) over that timescale.

In that respect, experience suggests that 6SL7s, used as signal valves in a preamp, appear to be more reliable than 6SN7s, used as driver valves in a power amp (the Russian ones I mentioned earlier being a case in point) - I guess because in the former application the valves aren't being driven as hard, or perhaps 6SL7s are generally more reliable? I don't know.

All I know is that in the many years I've owned my modded Charisma-X, it's provided trouble-free use, other than the odd valve going down, which really comes as part of the territory of owning valve equipment. Therefore, the *real* picture here is that it's not 'the norm' for the larger octal valves to go tits up (it's far more likely that they'll be great and last for years, as in general they were built to much higher standards than current production ones), but you can get faulty ones.

Therefore, the choices are there for those interested in owning Croft equipment to take the route that best suits them

Marco.

Great advice, and all points taken on board.

The other advantage of buying an old Epoch Elite or Charisma-X is that you get cases, such as these:








...to house everything in, as opposed to a somewhat nondescript looking black box!

Marco.

I hate all that stupid bling. I prefer the simple, industrial looking black boxes.

Early and current Croft products use functional casework to reduce costs. The internal circuitry is where the money goes and it shows with unbeatable sound for your Pound.

The middle period Croft, usually built by his 'distributor', placed emphasis on bling.

See my above comment.

[Jimbo]

The Croft RIAA R phono stage is not the same as either the R or RS. It has 3 valves in the phono stage so quite a bit more sophisticated than any of the current Croft preamps.

[Wakefield Turntables]

OK. I've now put up a few adverts on the various forums for a Epoch or a Charisma.

[matador]

Does anyone heard Mega Micro?
836302547_o.jpg

[Wakefield Turntables]

I had no idea it existed.

[rubber duck]

Maybe you mean Super Micro?

[Marco]

I'd take the current black box any time to the bling or for that matter, most amps out there. No idea why current Croft gets such a hard time in terms of looks. They are clean and understated. I also prefer to listen rather than look at my amps, and am glad Glenn chooses to spend money where it matters.

I completely agree. However, I don't consider the two images I posted, of an Epoch and a Charisma, to be 'blingy'... Perhaps it's the gold knobs on the former? If they were black or silver instead, then I see no bling.

Ditto with the Charisma casing, which I have with my amp (although mine has black, instead of shiny sliver knobs). In the flesh, it's simply a lovely pressed (non-magnetic) stainless steel casing with a black acrylic fascia. Not 'blingy' in the slightest.

Whilst I also like the 'industrial look' of the current range of Croft gear (and indeed that look of hi-fi in general), I enjoy owning some kit that has a distinctive appearance

Marco.

[Marco]

Does anyone heard Mega Micro?
836302547_o.jpg

That's a classic from a bygone era! DarrenHW, of this parish, owns one

Marco.

[Marco]

The middle period Croft, usually built by his 'distributor', placed emphasis on bling.

Ah, Amar's 'creations' for Eminent Audio - I remember them well...

A rather bleak time for both Glenn and Croft. I was nearly involved in the court case, as Amar threatened to sue me for defending Glenn (siding with Matt), and simply telling the truth about his dodgy practices!

Marco.

[Barry]

That's a classic from a bygone era! DarrenHW, of this parish, owns one

Marco.

Hmmm! Completely dual mono, right down to the input selecting switches! I hope the dual mono aspect is maintained right back to the power supplies with separate mains transformers.