Any Digital Impressions of the Caiman yet?

[DSJR]

A quickie regarding "speed!"

Fast bass often means NO bass - or an over-projected mid. So many speakers with a properly extended bass are regarded as "slow," even if they're not booming, purely because of that extra octave or two. Most "flat earth" speakers have a rapid rolloff in the bass and/or the mid is severely peaked up - IMO..

[Labarum]

Ah yes. Getting the bottom two octaves right is very difficult and very expensive. It still requires big drivers and a lot of expensive cabinetwork. The laws of physics will not be flouted.

[Ali Tait]

Therein lies the problem-at these frequencies you hear the cabinet more than the driver.An OB would produce a more accurate sound IMHO,at least as long as the driver is up to it.

[Stratmangler]

Right with you there Ali, but unfortunately you end up with similar issues to using 'stats - the damned things need room to breathe in order to get the best out of them.

Chris

[Stratmangler]

Going back to the point about silence at the start of CD's, if the mastering engineer has allowed sufficient silence time (say, 2 seconds) before starting the mastering process, then the problem should never arise, as the DAC has 2 seconds of silence to sync up with before the music starts.

So the problem is actually not a DAC issue, but one of mastering.

Chris

[trailer]

So the problem is actually not a DAC issue, but one of mastering.

I'm hoping that was a tongue in cheek remark

[Chippy_boy]

Ah yes. Getting the bottom two octaves right is very difficult and very expensive. It still requires big drivers and a lot of expensive cabinetwork. The laws of physics will not be flouted.

I agree about laws of physics etc (as an ex-physicist!).

But it is possible to get very extended bass from very small cabinets. Just not at the same time as high sensitivity. It tends to be a bass extension / sensitivity trade off and less sensitivity tends to rob music of its dynamics, apart from also needing a dirty great big amplifier to drive them. Also the crossover tends to be horribly complicated with nasty phase angles and impedence dips, which makes it even worse.

But deep bass from small cabinets IS possible. Look at the REL Q-series subs. They were only circa 12" cubed - which isn't a lot of volume - but managed to get down to around 25Hz -3dB. In the case of the Q200, with "only" a 200w amp.

I don't know why more speaker manufacturers don't offer passive floorstanders, but with an active bass section with a big d-class amp driving the bass enclosure.

They could be very compact, offer excellent bass-mid-treble integration, and outstanding extended frequency response - say 20Hz ~ 30KHz - all fairly cheaply.

The problem with fully active speakers is that they cost a fortune (if their amplification is any good). And fully passive means you usually either have limited bass response.

The hybrid I suggest above would be just ideal. But no-one seems to make them - apart from Martin Logan and may other electrostatic manufacturers.

[MartinT]

Alternatively, big is beautiful - and gives effortless deep bass

[Covenant]

Doesn't transmission line design give extended bass without loss of efficiency?

[Ali Tait]

You will get deeper bass with a bigger box but that just gives you more resonance.The only way to avoid it is to get rid of the box.