How good is a fully upgraded Technics SL-1210mk2 compared to other high end TT?

[Mike_New]

Sounds like a good idea to me! The benefits for Mike would be along the lines of 'speculate to accumulate', which is something many good businesses do with their products

Mike, what about it?

Marco.

Yes I hear what you are all saying, However there are a host of commercial reasons why not to do it.
What if the platter gets lost in the post or is not packed correctly by the last evaluator.
Proper care of the platter by the current user.
How long does the person have to decide?
The elapsed time between deliveries to the various prospects.
What comitment do the various people make to buy??

I am not saying that I am not interested. I just need to think about it, especially as I am selling platters at a reasonable rate.

[CageyH]

The other forum I use has specific rules for this.
Insured & tracked postage.
Loan period a maximum of two weeks. Not sure what happens about damage. I guess if it was done in the post, insurance claims would be required.

[Oldpinkman]

The ETP only offers a slight improvement over the original Al/Cu bonded platter IMHO. The cost for that improvement was too great, I didn't feel I had SPPV so I kept my original platter (which I think is excellent by the way).

Interesting. Of course any manufacturer making a platter is likely to be trying to get the best solution - and it costs what it costs. So if ETP is a bit better than the Al/CU one and the ETP is a reasonable cost for what it is, the fact that the additional cost of upgrading from one good platter (Al/Cu) to another good platter (ETP) is "not worth it" is not the fault of the new better platter. Starting from scratch, without the original investment in the first upgrade, the ETP is presumably fair value. At least, whether or not it is fair value has everything to do with how well it performs, and the price compared with production and distribution cost, and nothing to do with what another upgrade platter does or costs.

Regarding the "not much difference" I think this may be due to some confusion about what a platter does. I have corresponded privately with Cagey about this (he initially found no difference, or negligible difference between funk 1 and strata), treating him to a brief history of Pink Triangle product development, and the "science" or theories at least behind the evolution from acrylic to achromat to strata. A lot of the issue is that the "thing" (platter and mat if there is one) is really record support and termination. They are an integrated function. Pink Triangle pioneered this by having a platter which did both jobs, instead of termination being the mat, and support being the platter. But what works goes beyond just getting the platter/mat right - and depends on how the turntable itself deals with waste energy from the stylus.

So, if your mat is the termination and doing a good job, all that is left for the platter mechanically is to support the mat and record - and 2 quite different platters might do that equally well, or similarly well. With a different mat there may be more difference in the platters(or no mat - I had a feeling ETP could be - maybe should be - used naked)

I gather the bit of Pink Triangle history has helped Cagey get things working well in his system after a hesitant start.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Interesting. Of course any manufacturer making a platter is likely to be trying to get the best solution - and it costs what it costs. So if ETP is a bit better than the Al/CU one and the ETP is a reasonable cost for what it is, the fact that the additional cost of upgrading from one good platter (Al/Cu) to another good platter (ETP) is "not worth it" is not the fault of the new better platter. Starting from scratch, without the original investment in the first upgrade, the ETP is presumably fair value. At least, whether or not it is fair value has everything to do with how well it performs, and the price compared with production and distribution cost, and nothing to do with what another upgrade platter does or costs.

Regarding the "not much difference" I think this may be due to some confusion about what a platter does. I have corresponded privately with Cagey about this (he initially found no difference, or negligible difference between funk 1 and strata), treating him to a brief history of Pink Triangle product development, and the "science" or theories at least behind the evolution from acrylic to achromat to strata. A lot of the issue is that the "thing" (platter and mat if there is one) is really record support and termination. They are an integrated function. Pink Triangle pioneered this by having a platter which did both jobs, instead of termination being the mat, and support being the platter. But what works goes beyond just getting the platter/mat right - and depends on how the turntable itself deals with waste energy from the stylus.

So, if your mat is the termination and doing a good job, all that is left for the platter mechanically is to support the mat and record - and 2 quite different platters might do that equally well, or similarly well. With a different mat there may be more difference in the platters(or no mat - I had a feeling ETP could be - maybe should be - used naked)

I gather the bit of Pink Triangle history has helped Cagey get things working well in his system after a hesitant start.

Richard I'm going to be blunt. I couldn't give a $hit about how much something costs to make, as a company you have to suck it up and spend money to develop new products, it's as simple as that. I'm a consumer, if I don't think something offers me value I don't buy it.

[Marco]

So, if your mat is the termination and doing a good job, all that is left for the platter mechanically is to support the mat and record - and 2 quite different platters might do that equally well, or similarly well. With a different mat there may be more difference in the platters(or no mat - I had a feeling ETP could be - maybe should be - used naked)

There's also the issue of resonance and damping, things which some platters are better designed to address than others. In terms of mats, or no mat, as the case may be, you're right that the ETP sounds excellent, used 'au naturel'. It also has a label recess cut out for that purpose.

However, I achieved even better results by using the ETP in conjunction with a Nagaoka crystal (glass) mat, as shown here:





I bought the mat from Paul (Reffc), and he describes it's design and benefits here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...-Turntable-Mat

The combination of the above (along with one of Mark, YNWaN's, magnetic record clamps) produces a stunningly good sound, where real synergy appears to be at work. Highly recommended, and to my ears, on my T/T, significantly better than any other mat/platter combo I've used to date!

Marco.

[CageyH]

So a glass platter may be better than the ETP?

[Marco]

Lol.... Who knows? I doubt it, as the success of the ETP's design will partly be down to how the materials that are used [Delrin or a derivative thereof, perhaps some other form of thermoplastic] allow the platter to 'behave', sonically. The specialised crystal (totally non-resonant) glass mat, designed by Nagaoka, seems to form a formidable partnership with the ETP.

'Normal' mats, especially the awful rubber ones often supplied by T/T manufacturers, absorb a lot of the musical information stored on records, which casts a veil over the sound and muddies transients.

The principle behind the Nagaoka crystal mat is that energy which is normally wasted, by being sunk into the mat (acting as a damper), is instead retained within the cantilever/generator assembly of the cartridge, thus otherwise lost musical information is retained, producing a clearer, more open and much more detailed sound.

Certainly, in listening tests, when other mats I've got here (Blue Horizon, Achromat, felt and rubber mats) are used, switching to the Nagaoka instead is akin to drawing the curtains open in a dull room, and letting the sunshine in! Indeed, such is the level of sonic improvement gained, that it makes all other mats I've used sound 'broken'

Marco.

[prestonchipfryer]

Certainly, in listening tests, when other mats I've got here (Blue Horizon, Achromat, felt and rubber mats) are used, switching to the Nagaoka instead is akin to drawing the curtains open in a dull room, and letting the sunshine in! Indeed, such is the level of sonic improvement gained, that it makes all other mats I've used sound 'broken'

Marco.

Having tried numerous mats with the ETP platter (Oyaide, Achromat, Sound Dead Steel, felt and rubber) I would agree with Marco that the Nagaoka glass mat works very well with the ETP.

John

[aniki]

...when other mats I've got here (Blue Horizon, Achromat, felt and rubber mats) are used, switching to the Nagaoka instead is akin to drawing the curtains open in a dull room, and letting the sunshine in! Indeed, such is the level of sonic improvement gained, that it makes all other mats I've used sound 'broken'...

This was exactly my experience when switching to the resomat. Albeit on a standard platter. Have you used the resomat Marco?

[CageyH]

Yeah, but that was last month.