Apple Snow Leopard.. A cheap hi-fi upgrade?

[Marco]

Chippy,

Nope, not at all. My remarks were tongue-in-cheek.

Your opinion is as valid as anyone else's, and you're most welcome here. As long as you always express yourself as considerately as you just did, you'll be fine

Marco.

[twelvebears]

We've go two essentially identical Intel iMacs (one 20" one 24", otherwise identical age and spec down to HD size and make/amount of RAM), both accessing the same network drive via similar lengths of the same network cable, router etc.

I could probably get around to undertaking some direct A/B testing by simply swapping the optical cable into the Beresford, once my copy of Snow Leopard turns up and assuming I can be arsed to hump the machines around a bit.

Would that be useful?

[Chippy_boy]

Interesting perhaps twelvebears, but a load of hassle for you and to be honest it's probably not worth it.

The fact that people claim to hear differences between OS versions causes me to lose no sleep at all. Heck they may even be right. Personally, I find it very difficult to believe, but that doesn't really matter: it's not me sitting down enjoying their hifis. So long as everyone is happy, I seen no problem continuing as we are.

In my reply to Marco, I said that I don't care whether 504 people claim to hear something. This in fact was a lie. Of course I am swayed by what people say, and although 1 swallow does not make a summer, if you see 500 of them, you would have to start to think about brushing down the barbeque!

[Steve Toy]

Subjectivity + consensus = credibility. I agree that not every pair of ears can be trusted but this is a forum for trusted ears.

[Ammonite Audio]

................ given that our ears are pretty lousy sensors in any absolute sense.............

Pardon? As someone who happens to be formally qualified in the field of acoustics, I do know that the ears, combined with the brain, are the most excellent sensors in any sense, but we are all different from each other in the way the two work together. Musicians can have quite poor hearing by conventional audiometric criteria, but still perceive and resolve musical details to an extraordinary degree, but by objective criteria many are rather deaf.

Do not underestimate how much psychoacoustics contribute to what we (as individuals) hear. It's not just a question of decibels and two-dimensional waves.

[Chippy_boy]

Pardon? As someone who happens to be formally qualified in the field of acoustics, I do know that the ears, combined with the brain, are the most excellent sensors in any sense, but we are all different from each other in the way the two work together. Musicians can have quite poor hearing by conventional audiometric criteria, but still perceive and resolve musical details to an extraordinary degree, but by objective criteria many are rather deaf.

Do not underestimate how much psychoacoustics contribute to what we (as individuals) hear. It's not just a question of decibels and two-dimensional waves.

I think your last sentence *beautifully* argued in favour of what I just said.

[SteveW]

Oh Chippy, you silly billy. Come on...your tea is getting cold.

[Ammonite Audio]

You can read it that way if you wish; however the true meaning is that there is much to be understood about how we hear things, and in the context of this thread (and God knows how many others splattered over the Internet), there is no Right, nor Wrong - we are all correct in our own minds and happy with our own perceptions. Is this a Subjectivist v Objectivist argument? Not really - who knows what objective means in the context of home audio? That's a subject for an entirely different thread!

But, who am I to tell anyone else that they are wrong, on the basis of how I hear things? Who are you to tell others that "trusting their own ears" is wrong? A good sprinkling of understanding and humility goes a long way, and AoS is mostly an understanding, open-minded and good natured place. Having crossed a line or two in the AoS sand, I am keenly aware of the need to keep it that way.

Back to the subject of this thread, if someone states that Snow Leopard results in better sound quality because of the new core audio programming, then I'm happy to listen for myself and make up my own mind, secure in the knowledge that no amount of measuring is ever going to explain any difference. If it makes me want to listen to streamed music from my Mac, then I'll know that it's better than the old Leopard OSX.

[Marco]

But, who am I to tell anyone else that they are wrong, on the basis of how I hear things? Who are you to tell others that "trusting their own ears" is wrong? A good sprinkling of understanding and humility goes a long way, and AoS is mostly an understanding, open-minded and good natured place.

Excellent post, Shuggs. I could easily highlight all of it. However, the bit in bold is spot-on and shows that you really understand what AOS is all about; which to be fair, Chippy appears to be picking up fast!

It's interesting to note that some of our regulars have recently 'dipped their toes' into the waters of other forums, whilst in search of certain information, and sensed the aggression and 'niggle' amongst members which is part and parcel of the accepted 'vibe' - and then on returning here, appreciating the complete absence of such... This pleases me greatly as it's exactly what we set out to achieve.

Whatever this forum becomes in future, it will always remain a place where people (and their opinions) are treated with due respect and courtesy, and where the accent is on friendliness and people having fun during their journeys in audio.

Marco.

[Chippy_boy]

Shuggie, I accept none of your criticisms.

My opinion - and it is only that - is what it is and I have merely stated it. Nothing more, nothing less. For some reason there are those that seem to think this is some sort of personal assault.

I didn't tell anyone that "trusting there own ears is wrong". I merely stated that it's not a very reliable test in my opinion. Or am I not allowed an opinion?

I will say no more on this matter. I made a light hearted posting above to lighten the mood but some seem hell bent on dragging it down into a row again. I'm not going being drawn into it.