Apple Snow Leopard.. A cheap hi-fi upgrade?

[Mike]

do they want every post to be a "yes I agree" post

I certainly don't!

[Alex Nikitin]

Chippy_boy,

in your first post in this thread you've stated

But equally - when you think about it - if the OS is merely streaming out bit-perfect audio, it is impossible for any of your perceived improvements to actually exist, isn't it. The bits are the same, and there is nothing in the new software that can improve the inherent jitter in the crystal in your Mac, nor the layout of the internal wiring - which also is the source of jitter.

I would have no problem if you would say - I've listened to two setups with different OS and couldn't hear the difference - that is a perfectly valid subjective opinion. Or if you've stated that you've measured the jitter of two setups and the validity of the bitstream and didn't see any significant (from your point of view) difference - I may agree that it is a valid measurement and that there is no measurable by your equipment significant difference between two OS SPDIF output streams.

However you've used the word "impossible" which is not a good word to use when your argument is merely speculative, based on neither an experiment nor a subjective perception. It is that word in your statement that I found objectionable and not in the spirit of this forum.

Alex

[SteveW]

Chippy...will you sodding well start another thread..

[leo]

Best thing to do is just try this sort of stuff out and make your own minds up, we don't all have the same hearing anyway

The best we can do is try something and post details on here if its something which we think added improvements to our own set up

[Marco]

Hi Chippy,

You seem to be hell bent on a community of like minded individuals, Marco.

Well that's essentially what AOS or any successful forum is. We've created an environment where people can share their experiences and learn from each other without fear of being ridiculed. This is a core part of our ethos, and something that is largely absent on other audio forums. However, although we're like-minded, we don't always agree with each other - far from it.

*But* what's very important is that in the latter instance we respect the opinions of other members, even when we don't agree with them - AND that we don't feel the need to point out where we think people are 'wrong' or "fooling themselves" at every opportunity.

It is this (very important) last bit that you've so far failed to grasp.

I am sorry if I have caused any offense to anyone, and I really sincerely doubt if I have.

Apology accepted, however none was needed. Trust me, if I thought that you were a troll, you'd be long gone by now

As long as you can disagree with people and challenge them without 'rubbishing' or demeaning their valid experiences (scientifically provable or not), you'll be fine.

It's a matter of knowing how far to 'push' your contrary opinion on people before it reaches the point of pissing them off, and dropping the subject and moving on when it becomes obvious you've reached that point.

I have questioned whether what people think they hear is real, and never whether what they say is genuine.

I have my own views of whether what they do hear is real - and I have expressed it here.

Nothing wrong with that - it's simply a matter of expressing it in the right way and choosing your language carefully. However, implying that people are "fooling themselves", even if that is the case, is not liable to win you many friends.

Remember that even though some things in hi-fi are imagined (I'm certain that this is often the case. We are all fallible humans, after all, and influenced by a number of factors), I'm equally certain that not everything genuinely heard can currently be measured or 'proven'. Therefore, that being the case, one can never know for sure when something heard is actually imagined or not. Unless someone is blatantly talking nonsense, I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I think the moderators here should seriously consider whether this sort of constructive criticism - and it IS genuinely constructive - is what they want. Or do they want every post to be a "yes I agree" post. If the latter, the forums will be all the worse for it, imho.

You're absolutely right. The last thing we want is a forum full of mindless sheep and 'yes men', and AOS most certainly isn't that. However, we also don't want a forum full of 'know-it-alls' who think that they're always right, and the ill-feeling and bad blood this creates. There has to be the right balance

In the words of Albert Einstein: "The mind is like a parachute - it only works if it's open". A lack of this mindset is what separates pseudo-scientists from 'the real McCoy'.

Marco.

P.S Let's drop this now and let the OP return to his original topic. I'm sure you'll take the points I've raised on board in your future posts

[Chippy_boy]

P.S Let's drop this now and let the OP return to his original topic. I'm sure you'll take the points I've raised on board in your future posts

Fair enough!

[DSJR]

Can I ask something?

I understand this new system is substantially simpler (?) than the old one and consumes less CPU time and saves HDD room (?). Might it be that the power-supply is worked less with the new system and makes the whole computer system more efficient?

Apologies if the above is a silly question, but I have an old XP based system here and when the USB bus was being over-worked, the thing seemed to almost seize up and we lost the wireless internet until the loading stopped, the CPU running 100% for ages until the loading calmed down. Replacing the hub for a powered one helped no end on this small and over-worked system.. Perhaps, if the OP's computer is having an easier time of it (the power-supply possibly), then the transmission of digits may just be made a smoother process with superior "timing."

Apologies again if I've completely lost the plot..

[webby]

Yes please!

If streamed audio sounds better because of Snow Leopard, then fine!

I do have the Snow Leopard upgrade coming from Apple, and I'm hoping that it might allow any audio to be streamed over an Airport Express, not just from iTunes, via the speaker select drop down thing at the bottom of the screen. It seems bizarre that my iTunes library played through Front Row cannot be streamed over the wireless network, when iTunes itself will do just that.

Can any Apple Geeks out there tell me if you can choose the audio output device in the System Preferences of Snow Leopard?

Shuggie, I'm sure there's something that can do this for you. I believe it's called Airfoil by Rogue Amoeba Software. Enjoy.

[lovejoy]

Can I ask something?

I understand this new system is substantially simpler (?) than the old one and consumes less CPU time and saves HDD room (?). Might it be that the power-supply is worked less with the new system and makes the whole computer system more efficient?

Apologies if the above is a silly question, but I have an old XP based system here and when the USB bus was being over-worked, the thing seemed to almost seize up and we lost the wireless internet until the loading stopped, the CPU running 100% for ages until the loading calmed down. Replacing the hub for a powered one helped no end on this small and over-worked system.. Perhaps, if the OP's computer is having an easier time of it (the power-supply possibly), then the transmission of digits may just be made a smoother process with superior "timing."

Apologies again if I've completely lost the plot..

No, I'd say it was a sound theory. There's probably a load of other things we haven't thought of that could be affecting it. My Mac is connected to my DAC via optical so it won't be down to an underpowered USB port.

You just reminded me of something I noticed whilst I was comparing the Mac with the PC for digital out a good while back..

I have the ability to tweak the voltage on my Beresford as I am using my own power supply with it. Whilst the PC sounded wonderful with the DAC at the standard 12V, it was only when I tweaked the voltage up to around 12.5 to 13V that the Mac could come anywhere near competing with it - again, both systems used optical connections.

[ultraviolet]

I got a mac mini a few weeks ago and I would say that the sound is not as crisp as my old pc with foobar. However another way of looking at it is the Mac has a more fluid quality to the sound. They both sound fairly good anyway so I won't complain. I'm getting Snow Leopard tomorrow so I'll report back on my findings.

The PC used coax whereas the mac uses optical so maybe it's not exactly a direct comparison. The SPDIF output from both systems is bit perfect - I've tested this by recording the SPDIF on my macbook and comparing the files with the output from my CD player (see Audiophile output on Mac OSX thread).