The Vain Pursuit of Excellence - Discussion.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Hi Guys,
I'm very gratified by the response this posting got but now it's confession time. I dropped an awfull gooly in the original posting and would like to correct it now. My excuse is that, having mulled over the whole subject in my mind for quite a while I dashed it off too quickly in posting it. My excuse? - old age and being awake too long - no afternoon nap .
To put it briefly, the pusuit of excellence is to be applauded, (whatever 'excellence' might mean to each of us), but the pursuit of Nirvana, that way lies frustration and madness.
Cheers,

I completely agree, Dave!
Excellence is attainable.
Nirvana only exists in the mind of the deluded hopeful.

But then some folks enjoy chasing Nirvana & there's nothing wrong with that. I did it myself for a while until I spent a couple of hours in the company of Neil Young with Pearl Jam as his backing band. That was the moment I realised I was wasting my time - you can't recreate that type of sound (& this would be a 'good thing' for some folks!)

[DaveK]

Yeah - we all knew that, Dave - we were just making allowances for a daft old fuddy-duddy!

Thanks Jerry, I feel a lot better for knowing that!! .

[Varun]

Hi Jerry,

You are nit picking my friend- yes I agree with what you say though- I was only talking in general terms. When it comes to challenging and questioning- I have been doing it in academic circles for a long time and in meetings-question almost everything- hence my views on the reviewer's etc.

You might remember the very first write up praising the LP12. Apparently a solo piano piece was being used as demonstration and the LP12 compared with either a Thorens or Ariston. The demonstrator pointed out that with the LP12 you could hear the L hand playing of the pianist, while with the other you could not. This was commented by the recording engineer at Abbey Road- whose views were that 'does it matter if you do not'. If I remember correctly it was the chap who recorded 'Dark side of the Moon'. What a thing to say! and what ignorance- both hands play a crucial role in Piano playing.

[Varun]

both are Sanskrit terms-
NirvaaNa- liberation (N is retroflex as the n in my name, a sound that only exists in India)
Avataar-re-incarnation

[Macca]

I spent two blissfull years content with my system (CD wise - I had put off a 'final' TT upgrade due to the expense (and the amount of travelling required to demo anything)

This blissful period ended with the demise of my old Sony CDP (many thousands of hours use) that whilst cheap (£250 new) was a great synergistic match with the rest of the kit - anyone who heard this sound (even playing quietly in the background) would remark (totally unprompted) on how good it sounded - always a good indicator that one is not deluding oneself!

This forced me out of Nirvanaand into a CDP upgrade - and then consequently into speaker cable upgrade, mains block upgrade...etc and now I am back on the upgrade road (sigh).

I was remarking to a friend who does some recording and mastering on a semi-pro level that I was thinking of selling my Linn amps if he knew anyone who might be interested - 'No', he said, 'but I am selling some active professional monitors. If you are interested I'll bring them around for a demo.' That will be this week, hopefully. Trying out new kit may not be Nirvana, but it is fun!

Martin

[DSJR]

One thing I CAN thank my Linn/Naim period in retail for is the way we can best judge a good audio system AT ANY PRICE LEVEL!!!!!

My wife wore her old personal CD player out (gets used more than my stereo ......) and I bought a cheap modern Sony on fleabay for her as a replacement (£10 can't be bad). using the uncomfortable little ear-plug headphones, I was surprised how easy it was to hear the different skins of a drum-kit and the reverb behind them. The overall balance (with a little X-bass boost) was most acceptable and I could easily live with it...

Linn taught us the "tune and rhythm" dem. In my case, the ability of a well matched setup to encourage you to hum or sing along with the basic "melody" of a piece - taken further, to listen to the instruments playing behind - what they're playing and how they relate to the piece as a whole. As for rhythm, I never really "got" this aspect, as systems with the most "pr@t" usually didn't have any real bass to speak of, although many bigger speakers had boom, rather than bass (including un-modified Spendor BC1's...)

I appreciate that most Linn/Naim dealers of the eighties and nineties took the above to extreme excess, but pared down to the nub, it's always stood me in good stead and I've been thrilled with hearing client's simple systems that communicate the basics so well you don't realise what they're not doing...

Going back to the original post, I'd definitely agree that it's possible to get an excellent sound, but not total perfection, as few audio types know what the original recording should sound like and tailor their setups around what they imagin it could be.....

[Mike Reed]

Welcome back, CHRIS. Guess you must be sorting yourself out/settling in at last after your move.

To put myself out on a limb and be branded a heretic (accurately, as it happens), I'd like to make three points.

I have no interest in attending concerts of any kind, and have never equated hifi sound to live sound. Apart from it being impossible to identically reproduce, I think I'd prefer the canned variety anyway, let alone the convenience. I've never being knocked out by any concert sound in the past, it being either distorted, too loud or diffuse. Non classical concerts surely still depend upon the amplification of the group and outside performances were very variable, understandably.

Upgrading within certain parameters DOES bring an improvement, every time, i.m.e.

After a time one's ears get used to ANY upgrade; I often wonder how some of my earlier systems I used to think were the bees' knees would stack up now. Not too well, methinks!

One of these days I shall have to attend a decent classical concert just to see if my jaded memories are justified.

[Jason P]

This is an interesting topic!

For me I thought I'd reached a pinnacle (for my buying power) with my setup, but it was never quite 'there'; certainly after I'd put an Origin Live DC motor and OL arm on the Linn (a combination that I was assured would work - more fool me) it was never as enjoyable (please note careful use of word) as the LP12/Ittok combo. I was forever tweaking, worried about setup, placement, isolation etc.etc... and it just wasn't as enjoyable as my old, cheaper setups of the past.

So I thought 'sod it' and went back to basics. Got shot of the Linn, got a 1200 (the thing I like about this deck is that you can plonk it down, set it up and forget it, and you'll get good tunes out of it), went back to an old NAD 3020 (what a cracking amp) and am MUCH happier, even if 'on paper' it's a poorer system.

Discovering the delights of older kit has been great too; my CDP cost me £50, the tuner £18, I'm about to get a valve amp for less than a couple of hundred quid, and I know with any of these bits I can shift them on later without losing anything like the amounts I'd've lost with new kit. So the persuit of excellence, or at least the persuit of enjoyable sounds, needn't cost a fortune.

I remember many moons ago, when we used to hang out round a hi-fi shop near us, a chap who was a regular spent maybe £50k on a system. He'd play stuff that sounded good (not necessarily what he liked) and obsess over microdetails in the recordings - but I often wondered if music moved him at all. It was almost forensic, as a collector might obsess over the brush technique in a painting without ever 'getting' what the image was about.

For me 'audio nirvana' can be reached anywhere, it's not about the quality - some of my most magical music moments have been playing tapes on a boom box around a camp fire, or in a cruddy car stereo; when a song gels with the mood and the moment, it don't matter to me one jot about the fidelity or lack of.

My 2 cents; but an excellent topic!!

Jason

[lexi]

Good interesting points guys. Yes Jason the wonders of the 3020. I still listen to mine and marvel on what it can do rather than what it can`t...............maybe that`s Audio Nirvana

[NRG]

If we don't try to achieve audio nirvana we may as well give up and stick with an 80's midi system......or an iPOD........ Striving to achieve the best pushes the boundaries and increases ones learning and knowledge. I've been very happy with my system for a few years now but it does not stop me from trying things and learning and as of today I've just made another step forward.