The Vain Pursuit of Excellence - Discussion.

[lexi]

I think it`s a good topic. Far to sensible for a an Audio Forum. Are you trying to kill the fun?

What interests me is how people make judgements on all the criteria of the usual "improvements". Ok maybe someone has to comment and why not.

But..........what are you comparing to? EG. " Breathy" vocals on highly produced pop albums .........these sounded more this or that. Does it matter? You weren`t there at the final cut or posess a copy of Mastertape so how do you know it is an improvement ? People say far too much in this hobby and loads of it is Piffle. The other one you mentioned........"oh I noticed a big difference ".....yeah?.....Thats` your wallet telling you it`s just lost weight.. Keep hearing "differences" and the Crocodile Square is gonna end up Levitating

Not knocking the fun of music and gear etc......it keeps us going. To put a new cartridge on an arm and tweak then sit back and absorb.........lets face it that it still fun. DIY building amps speakers turntables etc...........maybe that is more like the New Direction. Also as said....The Room. It`s only ever you and the room. I think I have improved my sound with modding room and setting gear up to sympathise with it. My room was crap ..........thats what needed the work, my humble lil stereo can play music ok.

We can go round in circles at this game. Lowthers are out.....oh they`re in again. Idler is out.....no not now! Just keep what you got? It`ll come back again anyway!
The Music The Music that`s what counts....all played on good gear of course The Beat goes on.......

[Barry]

...........

I've touched on this before when I asked if anyone agreed with my theory that those of us who spend as much or more time in the 'Musical' sections of AoS than the 'Gear' sections are those who are somehow more 'at peace' with their hi-fi.

I think I'm there. 'Spinning Now .....' is always the first thread I look at when I log on. Most of my equipment has remained unchanged for 30 years; it does me and would cost a lot to substantially improve. It's not perfect, far from it, but does all the things that are important to me and my ears.

Every time I attend a live concert, I think to myself 'Boy have we got a long way to go', but when I return home and play my system I forget those misgivings. My system provides me with enormous pleasure and is in use several hours a day, every day we are at home, something like 300 days a year.

I still dabble and buy odd bits of kit, as I'm interested in the whole field of sound reproduction, but to chase after an unobtainable goal - no.

Regards

[John]

Its strange this obession I like most people here suffer from that endless pursuit of something that can never really be achieved but I get so much pleasure from music and want to be inolved in the experience as much as I can
I do not have the same commitments as others here do yet work in job that demands a lot emotionally from me so I will at least spend 2 hours each day listening to music and at weekends I can often spend 4 to 5 hours. Listening to music is like coming back home to myself
I know I can never really get the sound I want but I also know I can get closer to it. On the whole I am usually just happy listening to music and can even enjoy music on my walkman through my headphones.

[Varun]

Hi Dave,

Always nice to have some philosophy and this thread overlaps with the other one-'what is art of sound'. Once I heard the first demonstartion of Quad Electrostatics 63 speakers. The man demonstrating was only using acoustic recordings- of either individual instruments; some jazz pieces and some orchestral.

The contention was that electronic -meaning electric guitars and the keyboards have no known points of reference. My son is a good guitar player and says that all the elctric guitar players have used distortion in their playing to some extent.

Then the bigger issue for the modern audiophiles is -the way sound reproduction was seen in the early 80s and the standards of reviewing set up.
All the differences appreciated in equipments are in essence personal choices- and relate to so many variables that to have a standard was not possible- never has been. To top it all reviewers have certain biases of their own-Human nature- nothing wrong with it- but then the listeners are led along that path-more often than not wrongly.

What is good about this forum is that Big is not always great known for a long time-has been promoted- rather like expensive wine by name such as Chablis-can be utterly awful and yet attract high praise.

[Joe]

I think it`s a good topic. Far to sensible for a an Audio Forum. Are you trying to kill the fun?

What interests me is how people make judgements on all the criteria of the usual "improvements". Ok maybe someone has to comment and why not.

But..........what are you comparing to? EG. " Breathy" vocals on highly produced pop albums .........these sounded more this or that. Does it matter? You weren`t there at the final cut or posess a copy of Mastertape so how do you know it is an improvement ? .

An excellent point, particularly given the various artifices introduced during the production/mixing process.

To me the only criterion that matters is, does this equipment enable me to enjoy music, in whatever genre? If it is excellent with voice/guitar, but crap with anything more complex, then it's of no use to me, however expensive or 'well-regarded'. I'm slightly baffled when people buy a piece of equipment that renders a large part of their music collection unlistenable; surely that's defeating the object of the exercise?

On the original question, I don't think audio Nirvana is obtainable, and I'm at the point where my system is good enough to stop me lusting after upgrades. Personally I'm neither a perfectionist nor an obsessive, but if other people get enjoyment out of trying to reach audio Nirvana, and if that enjoyment isn't at the cost of insolvency, then I see no problem.

[jandl100]

Going back to the original title of the thread .....

As a Box Swapper I am not after some sort of audio Holy Grail or unattainable (or unaffordable!) pinnacle of excellence.

I fully appreciate that no piece of equipment or system is perfect, and so I just like to try different things.

Music can be equally satisfying, if differently presented, on a valve driven ribbon hybrid speaker as on a big mutha solid state driven full range electrostatic. I love it all!

[Varun]

Jerry,

The differences between Hobbyists and tweekers and listeners will remain as they do in so many other areas- so Hi Fi is not an exception. Photohgraphy, motor sport, toy model collecting, antique furniture and paintings and so on.

As Neil says some basics are essential like a sound equipment support- but hobby-ists will enjoy their hobby as so many do in so many other fields and the same applies to tweekers. I do not believe that Dave was asking any of those to stop doing what they do!

But does the pleasure of collecting and tweeking always result in better sound- the answer has to be SOLID NO.

Best to stay with what you are comfortable with. And then there other issues- often a desire to upgrade or go on upgrading may have more to do with a restlessness- resulting from an unsettled state of mind and body.. alcohol not being the best solution for either.

[DaveK]

Hi Guys,
I'm very gratified by the response this posting got but now it's confession time. I dropped an awfull gooly in the original posting and would like to correct it now. My excuse is that, having mulled over the whole subject in my mind for quite a while I dashed it off too quickly in posting it. My excuse? - old age and being awake too long - no afternoon nap .
To put it briefly, the pusuit of excellence is to be applauded, (whatever 'excellence' might mean to each of us), but the pursuit of Nirvana, that way lies frustration and madness.
Cheers,

[jandl100]

Jerry,

As Neil says some basics are essential like a sound equipment support

I don't think that anything is essential. Why should it be? OK, a loudspeaker of some sort is 'essential'! Anyway, for me, a hifi support is just that, it has a supporting (i.e. subsidiary) role in hifi - it's just a tweak - the real meat is in the electonics and speakers, in my view, and how they interact and make music.

Best to stay with what you are comfortable with.

Ah, well, that's where we seriously part company, Varun! Being too "comfortable" is not what I like to be. I prefer to be constantly challenged - for me hifi/music isn't something I come home to and relax with after a hard day at work .... I'm lucky enough to be 'early-retired' so music and hifi for me is an active and exciting thing for me to do and be involved with.

[jandl100]

Hi Guys,
I'm very gratified by the response this posting got but now it's confession time. I dropped an awfull gooly in the original posting and would like to correct it now. ....... the pursuit of Nirvana, that way lies frustration and madness.
Cheers,

Yeah - we all knew that, Dave - we were just making allowances for a daft old fuddy-duddy!