Rip off British Hi-Fi Industry

[naitphile]

Not £4500? How did you arrive at that figure?

I tend to buy as I find. I wasn't particularly looking for my naim amp but was in a new dealer, I liked the amp well enough but bought probably more because I liked the dealer. But let us also be clear we are all focused on sound (art of sound like) and important home demos are for the majority of us, probably harder to arrange than buying online and testing at home.

On the other hand I was in a well reviewed specialist dealer this week and wanted to look at top end headphones. The assistant didn't think They had the model I wanted in the cabinet that was beyond my sight and made no effort to tempt me with something else....the owner of the store witnessed this but just carried on his conversation with his mate about pink flloyd. Maybe it's because I am on crutches people make assumptions about how much disposal income I have (happened before went to a dealer for a pre-booked test drive and was greeted with motability is on Wednesdays sir - walked across the road and bought a car) or maybe the headphone guy was hungover but they lost a sale and a future customer ..I have noidea but overall I am increasingly happy researching online and then buying online....I usually like my choices and it can be done by comparing prices....furthermore i find you can sense good dealers by their websites and reviews then call and go visit and buy if they sound good. That's my two penneth and it's just market forces.

Are we being ripped off as a whole? I don't know there have been many reports on this and seems you need to look at how whole tax structures and competition in each market works it's not that simple.

[walpurgis]

Having had a skim through this lot, I don't feel I have the energy left to vote.

[awkwardbydesign]

Just noticed this thread. I live in Plymouth, so the question is irrelevant.

[naitphile]

Having had a skim through this lot, I don't feel I have the energy left to vote.

Is there a vote....I was too busy ranting��

[Marco]

Just noticed this thread. I live in Plymouth, so the question is irrelevant.

Not if it’s a Tuesday.

Marco.

[Reffc]

Is it the dealers or the manufactures who mark up excessively? Does it really cost as much to make an amp weighing around 15Kg as a car!! I believe the formula for hifi manufacture mark up is 5x the build cost. Economy of scale is often quoted as a reason but I think that is over stated.

I do have direct experience of how a dealer tried to over charge me for a piece of 2nd hand equipment he knew I was interested in.

It was a Dartzeel pre amp. He offered it to me at 16K, more than the original list price (15k), I declined. I obtained one elsewhere at half the sum he was asking. Some months later I saw the same amp on the same dealers web site for 6k less than he tried to sell it to me.

If that's the case, I'll have to "up" the price of my speakers to a 5 figure sum straight away...thanks for that

Manufacturers do not all use the same model. It depends entirely on (company) size, turnover, overheads, economies of scale, what the market can stand, what competitors charge, marketing costs, R&D costs, how many units it is anticipated will sell and a whole raft of other measures. I use a very simple formula (cost - plus hourly charge which is stepped depending on skill level of task) whilst others may use a doubling, trebling or whatever of build cost. You cannot compare one against the other without a hell of a lot of detail, as it'd be largely meaningless. The real test is simple. You ask yourself a few questions as a buyer:

• what is it I want
• Does this tick the right boxes (sound quality, appearance, finish, build quality)
• Can I afford it
• how does it stack up with the competition

If those boxes are ticked in the affirmative then pricing largely becomes irrelevant so the whole OP is up for grabs. At the end of the day it's a personal choice being made by grown ups, and providing they have their eyes wide open, few are likely to be ripped off. Are some things way more expensive than they should be? That depends on the "should" but of course, there's bound to be some.

There's other questions too: Just because something may be expensive doesn't mean it's any good. Just because something's inexpensive, doesn't mean it's not any good. Some amp manufacturers probably put more cost into their casework, switches and marketing than their internals (minus R&D costs), fact. Visuals sell, and good marketing sells.

One thing is for sure: The cost of PCB electronics has undoubtedly come down and manufacturing on a large scale has become cheaper but there will always be components that are labour intensive and expensive to build and one cannot simply judge them on cost alone. Two speaker cabinets may look the same, but the designs and materials may be different enough for one pair to have taken literally hours to assemble and one pair to take weeks to build from scratch. There may be sound reasons for one over the other but the average punter may not be aware of these. Similarly, decent power supplies and output transformers are not cheap, nor are fancy caps etc.

What it boils down to is whether you want to go the DIY route for best value (good luck with that unless you're confident or experienced) or whether you value the skills and products that are about that are undoubtedly expensive but worth it in the long run. Similarly, there are inexpensive components that may well be great value. Value is in the judgement and eye of the buyer.

[Oldpinkman]

Just noticed this thread. I live in Plymouth, so the question is irrelevant.

Irrelevant is the question? - the answers a big grey thing with ears and a trunk?

[Spectral Morn]

I tend to buy as I find. I wasn't particularly looking for my naim amp but was in a new dealer, I liked the amp well enough but bought probably more because I liked the dealer. But let us also be clear we are all focused on sound (art of sound like) and important home demos are for the majority of us, probably harder to arrange than buying online and testing at home.

On the other hand I was in a well reviewed specialist dealer this week and wanted to look at top end headphones. The assistant didn't think They had the model I wanted in the cabinet that was beyond my sight and made no effort to tempt me with something else....the owner of the store witnessed this but just carried on his conversation with his mate about pink flloyd. Maybe it's because I am on crutches people make assumptions about how much disposal income I have (happened before went to a dealer for a pre-booked test drive and was greeted with motability is on Wednesdays sir - walked across the road and bought a car) or maybe the headphone guy was hungover but they lost a sale and a future customer ..I have noidea but overall I am increasingly happy researching online and then buying online....I usually like my choices and it can be done by comparing prices....furthermore i find you can sense good dealers by their websites and reviews then call and go visit and buy if they sound good. That's my two penneth and it's just market forces.

Are we being ripped off as a whole? I don't know there have been many reports on this and seems you need to look at how whole tax structures and competition in each market works it's not that simple.

That is appalling.

I would write a letter of complaint.

When in the audio retail trade I regularly had folks with mobility problems in the shop, I treated them no differently than anyone else, re giving as good service as I could. I once took all the furniture out of the demo room to facilitate a demo for a guy in a wheelchair. He was delighted with the demo, what I presented and made a purchase. It does my head in these sales guys/shop owners who feel entitled to be given money for zero effort.

I still believe the dealer model is the best one, re facilitating demo's and home loans,. and quality advice based on experience but increasingly crap service like you got means that all are being tarred with the same brush.


Regards Neil

[Andrei]

Haven't read the whole thread (and I am not voting) but like many Hi-Fi areas it is difficult to come up with something conclusive because there are so many other variables influencing the one in question - in this case a rip-off. I suppose considering retail prices for the same item on The Continent and in The States could be interesting. If retail prices in the UK are higher then that is a starting point. I stress 'starting point' because maybe UK dealers offer (on average) a different level of service - worth a lot in my book; maybe there are different levels of duty or sales tax, or maybe standard (or legislative) warranties are different. Here in NZ retail prices are substantially more than almost anywhere else because of the shipping costs (also the extra time involved finding us on the map).

[Gordon Steadman]

Its interesting comparing things in France and the UK.

In the UK, new stuff is fairly expensive but second hand is give away. Here, new is reasonable but second hand is fantastically expensive. The French think that there is still value in their old stuff and charge accordingly. There is the occasional bargain but usually its cheaper to buy in the UK and suffer the postage. A second hand Philips CD player which would go for pennies in the UK is up for over €60 here. Old all in one record players from the 50s get hundreds in spite of being crap. Collector's item they are not.

Now that eBay are doing the international bit, things might even out I suppose.