Rip off British Hi-Fi Industry

[BTH K10A]

What the OP was trying to weed out, I think, isn't so much the dealer (he states hopefully ) but the distributer, who bought in cheap from Japan and now China (most often), added a good few hundred percent (quite often) before trade-pricing it to a retailer. Even now, how much or little do you think the spate of £300 - £400 active 'monitors' come into the UK for? I'm told around £60 to £75 and the dealer doesn't have a huge margin on them, which I understand is more in line with computer products than traditional 'High Fidelity' gear...

Back in 1975, a cassette deck selling typically for £120 would leave the factory for no more than £25. Dealer would buy it at around £85 to £90 back then if they bought in quantity.

No, I don't think so, as per the OP's posts 1 & 3 it is definitely the retailer (dealer), later moving onto the hifi industry as a whole and even the enthusiasts who are labelled sheep.

In response to the original topic I must say that I've never felt ripped off by the British hifi industry as there has always been ample choice of products and the competition that brings.

Retailers have overheads which nowadays are becoming unsustainable for the smaller outlets
Distributers are often necessary as a lot of manufacturers, particuarly the larger ones have no interest in a high volume of small value transactions and prefer to sell in bulk to someone who does. The distributor also has to cover warehousing and financing.
Direct sellers are not new, they just have a different (better) media in the internet and the numbers have increased.

However when buying I usually heed the following:

Be dubious of marketing claims untill empirically proven, always rely on your own judgement rather than that of others others and always be suspicious of the motives of those who have a vested interest in the gospel they are preaching.

[chelsea]

No

[tom]

Is it the dealers or the manufactures who mark up excessively? Does it really cost as much to make an amp weighing around 15Kg as a car!! I believe the formula for hifi manufacture mark up is 5x the build cost. Economy of scale is often quoted as a reason but I think that is over stated.

I do have direct experience of how a dealer tried to over charge me for a piece of 2nd hand equipment he knew I was interested in.

It was a Dartzeel pre amp. He offered it to me at 16K, more than the original list price (15k), I declined. I obtained one elsewhere at half the sum he was asking. Some months later I saw the same amp on the same dealers web site for 6k less than he tried to sell it to me.

[Peter Galbavy]

Like in any walk of life there are "canny" operators. You know the sort - antique dealers who intentionally dress in quality-but-fallen-on-hard-times clothing to garner sympathy, the farmer who complains loudly about a hard life while employing lawyers and accountants to maximise the grants and tax-breaks from government and of course the HiFi/car dealer who will always target the aspirational ego of customers in order to upgrade them to the next product, the higher margin product, the buy-it-now-before-they-put-the-price-up-again merchant. They are all stereotypes but I have met more than one of each in my years. They do exist and not just on TV.

[StanleyB]

Is it the dealers or the manufactures who mark up excessively? Does it really cost as much to make an amp weighing around 15Kg as a car!! I believe the formula for hifi manufacture mark up is 5x the build cost. Economy of scale is often quoted as a reason but I think that is over stated..

One reason that China managed to undercut the rest of the world in many areas of manufacturing is because they did not have to do any proto type and R&D work. They received a sample to copy.
But the average company that needs to do R&D, proto type work, and get safety approvals, needs to include those costs in the price. It is not just a case of how much it costs to build something.
Far too many people complain about how much the HIFI industry makes on the sale of an item. But I don't hear those same complaints when it comes to cars or homes, even though the latter two are heavily overpriced in the UK.

[Macca]

Not just cars and houses. Designer clothes are twice the price here than in most places. Food is more expensive, generally. Compared to the U.S we are paying 25% to 100% more for pretty much everything. The 'Treasure Island' reputation has not gone away.

[Oldpinkman]

The perception of "rip-off" derives from an idea that conventional retail and its associated costs are not appropriate or legitimate, now there is an alternative of direct sales for many items. This is an inexpensive route to market, and attractive to those who are primarily price fixated and don't require advice or "touchy feely" or other aspects of the retail process. Others prefer differently. The idea that a product MUST be a function of its component cost is bonkers. Like everything else it is driven by market forces. If its too expensive - it won't sell. Final cost will be determined primarily by what the market will stand, and what viable legitimate alternatives are available at lower cost.

As Stan pointed out, R&D and product testing are elements, as are rep support and local distributor advertising, warranty support, distribution and stock holding costs. The OP has a modest market - primarily the home market through ebay, and a slightly wider audience through referral. If he wants to market in Singapore, he needs to hold stock there, advertise locally, register for local taxes, provide warranty support there. And the same applies to anyone from Singapore selling into the UK market. And they tend to chose and agent who speaks the language and knows the trading and tax laws, to do that for them. At a price.

If you want it cheap - build your own, or buy used product at way below viable modern manufacture and supply cost (except for cult items like LS35a's). There is a huge stock of excellent value real HiFi - it dominates a tiny market which is has decayed to a fraction of its former vibrant self - hence the withdrawal of Technics, Pioneer and others from what is now a fringe esoteric market. But don't knock those still trying to make a living by developing innovative new product for the remaining few enthusiasts, rather than a "one size fits all - lets rewire , use special components, or a different case" home builders selling via direct marketing.

Pricing will depend on volumes. In a tiny market, expected sales levels are tiny, and price will be high relative to component cost due to lack of demand, and associated R&D, administration, distribution and marketing costs.

If you think its too expensive, and can get better or equivalent cheaper elsewhere - don't buy it. Don't sit there whinging its a rip-off.

And don't expect to use shop facilities and then save 5% buying online and be welcomed into the mainstream retailer.

[Marco]

Hi Richard,

Whilst your points are valid, and in general I agree with the contents of your post, let’s not focus any further on the agenda of the OP (or anything about him), and concentrate instead solely on the nature of the thread topic and whether the question posed on the poll has any relevance now or not.

Cheers!

Marco.

[struth]

Hi end is a market where it is often the case that the buyers don't really care or in fact enjoy the silly price tags. Otherwise as has been stated the prices in general in this country are OTT. In Germany a Merc used to cost half what it is here although we get all the gadgets built in whereas the Germans put them in themselves. Might not be that way now. A friend of mine used to go to the states and come back with a new wardrobe. He took over a load of crap and dumped it and filled up with polo shirts that cost 3 times here...immoral? Dunno, but he was a cop!

[Macca]

. A friend of mine used to go to the states and come back with a new wardrobe. He took over a load of crap and dumped it and filled up with polo shirts that cost 3 times here...immoral? Dunno, but he was a cop!

Yep I used to do that - save a couple of hundred easy. Plus you get American service: a gadgee goes all round the shop with you points out the stuff you are looking for, carries it around for you and then makes you a coffee whilst they ring it all through the till. Much better than their gum chewing, grunting UK equivelant.