Shure 97xE Cartridge views?

[DSJR]

A recording engineer pal of mine (in the AV industry) liked his stock V15 III and found the Jico SAS stylus changed things too much for him, hence my comments regarding the 97 series with SAS styli, which will change the performance away from that intended, maybe for the better? The best V15 III I heard was with an HE stylus. Much sweeter and 'friendlier' in musical communication to me. There was also a MR version of the VN35 stylus but I never saw it listed over here in the UK.

I loved my V15VMR but the cantilever was fractured by accident. I still have it and hope it may one day be possible to patch the cantilever somehow. The sound-field is smaller than a really good MC type and the dynamic range is also small scale in comparison with a really good Decca, but I found everything is in correct proportion. The later V15XMR, VST-V and 97XE are related I think in the body (the styli are different fitting size to the 'original' V15V I think).

Two ways to load a 97Xe. Low capacitance causes a gentle but continuous treble droop which will either give a beefy or dull balance depending on system and personal 'feel' of this balance. High capacitance will keep everything 'flat' for 90% of the range, but over 10k, the response will fall quite markedly.

As for rising treble in modern cartridges, I've been told it's something to do with Japanese vinyl, which has a different composition to other pressings worldwide. The peaky balance favours this *apparently.*

[The Black Adder]

The Jico SAS makes the sound much more refined... The original Super Track style ones are great, proper grit to which many like but I did prefer the Jico.

[rubber duck]

I've finally installed and had a quick listen to my M97XE. It sounds promising but hope to find some time this weekend and will report back.

Better late than never! It’s taken me a year to finally install this cart, so I’d better report back a little sooner than that.

I’ve now managed to spend a week listening to the M97XE on my rewired SL1210 arm. To my ears, the Shure is in many ways the antithesis of a hi-fi sound. It can best be described as organic – earthy, cohesive and wholesome. Rather than draw attention to individual musical strands and detail like the Denon DL110 does, the sound is rounded, holistic and apiece. The Shure loses some spatial detail, HF extension and air, especially compared to the DL110, which may make the cartridge sound dull in the wrong set up. This was not a problem through my Croft 25 Basic but when I briefly tried a Cambridge Audio 640P (specified at 220pF) the Shure sounded thin and lifeless.

However, the greater sense of space and air around instruments and within the soundstage which the DL110 better conveys could be due to higher resolution or it could be due to a leaner sound which emphasises instrumental outlines and spatial qualities, conveying a greater sense of space and air. I don’t think the Shure is necessarily less detailed than the Denon (HF aside), or at least not by much. I listened into recordings and had no difficulty picking up little details in the mix or soundstage. More tellingly, the Shure is transparent enough to sources to tell you what studio effects are being used and clearly distinguishes between different recordings. It’s the way this information is communicated which to me is the key difference between the M97XE and the DL110 (and many other MCs I’ve previously owned).

The Shure’s fuller bodied presentation (not necessarily warmth) and that loss of some HF extension, sparkle and openness (I’m still working on this) naturally skews the centre of music slightly towards the lower middle frequencies. But the ability of the Shure to reproduce the body behind voices and of instruments allows it to deliver very good tonal realism. Tenor sax had body, bite and a ringing clarity, as convincing as I’ve heard. Piano notes were weighty, and voices throaty, guttural and chesty. Orchestral pieces traded some of that sense of space for greater weight, cohesion, and power.

One thing which surprised and delighted me was the sense of power behind the music, making the DL110 sound lean, harmonically undernourished and a little anaemic in terms of dynamic impact. I was quite taken aback by how much my rock records rocked with the Shure. Underpinning this is a full-bodied bass which, on my SL1210, struck a fine balance between weight, poise, definition and speed. Double bass sounded realistic (not overdamped) and purposeful, and rhythm sections, whether rock, acoustic jazz or electric funk, had a propulsive quality.

At the end of the day, the Shure is not a cartridge which invites careful inspection or dissection of the musical event. Where a cartridge like the DL110 appeals more cerebrally, engaging with the Shure does not require thinking. Instead I found myself constantly tapping my feet and nodding along to music, and before long I was even singing and dancing! Thanks Peter (paskinn) for reminding us how good this cartridge is.

[keiron99]

I have the Jico stylus on its way and so will revisit the Shure when this arrives, should be interesting...

Where did you buy it from?

The only place I have seen selling them is the manufacturer themselves, in Japan. I assume you will face a hefty charge from customs?

[Ned664]

Where did you buy it from?

The only place I have seen selling them is the manufacturer themselves, in Japan. I assume you will face a hefty charge from customs?

Yep, ordered directly from Japan. I am still waiting for customs clearance so should be able to let you know in due course the customs charge.

[Ned664]

Better late than never! It’s taken me a year to finally install this cart, so I’d better report back a little sooner than that.

I’ve now managed to spend a week listening to the M97XE on my rewired SL1210 arm. To my ears, the Shure is in many ways the antithesis of a hi-fi sound. It can best be described as organic – earthy, cohesive and wholesome. Rather than draw attention to individual musical strands and detail like the Denon DL110 does, the sound is rounded, holistic and apiece. The Shure loses some spatial detail, HF extension and air, especially compared to the DL110, which may make the cartridge sound dull in the wrong set up. This was not a problem through my Croft 25 Basic but when I briefly tried a Cambridge Audio 640P (specified at 220pF) the Shure sounded thin and lifeless.

However, the greater sense of space and air around instruments and within the soundstage which the DL110 better conveys could be due to higher resolution or it could be due to a leaner sound which emphasises instrumental outlines and spatial qualities, conveying a greater sense of space and air. I don’t think the Shure is necessarily less detailed than the Denon (HF aside), or at least not by much. I listened into recordings and had no difficulty picking up little details in the mix or soundstage. More tellingly, the Shure is transparent enough to sources to tell you what studio effects are being used and clearly distinguishes between different recordings. It’s the way this information is communicated which to me is the key difference between the M97XE and the DL110 (and many other MCs I’ve previously owned).

The Shure’s fuller bodied presentation (not necessarily warmth) and that loss of some HF extension, sparkle and openness (I’m still working on this) naturally skews the centre of music slightly towards the lower middle frequencies. But the ability of the Shure to reproduce the body behind voices and of instruments allows it to deliver very good tonal realism. Tenor sax had body, bite and a ringing clarity, as convincing as I’ve heard. Piano notes were weighty, and voices throaty, guttural and chesty. Orchestral pieces traded some of that sense of space for greater weight, cohesion, and power.

One thing which surprised and delighted me was the sense of power behind the music, making the DL110 sound lean, harmonically undernourished and a little anaemic in terms of dynamic impact. I was quite taken aback by how much my rock records rocked with the Shure. Underpinning this is a full-bodied bass which, on my SL1210, struck a fine balance between weight, poise, definition and speed. Double bass sounded realistic (not overdamped) and purposeful, and rhythm sections, whether rock, acoustic jazz or electric funk, had a propulsive quality.

At the end of the day, the Shure is not a cartridge which invites careful inspection or dissection of the musical event. Where a cartridge like the DL110 appeals more cerebrally, engaging with the Shure does not require thinking. Instead I found myself constantly tapping my feet and nodding along to music, and before long I was even singing and dancing! Thanks Peter (paskinn) for reminding us how good this cartridge is.

Jeff, many thanks for your detailed post. I have since reinstalled the Shure whist awaiting the Jico stylus. I am not ashamed to say that I have been hasty with my earlier posts. I am not really sure what has happened but since reinstalling the loss of top end has been reduced. I don't now feel that detail is lost but more that it is simply presented in a different way. I would agree with your all your observations. There is still an absence of high frequency emphasis or sparkle, but there is a great musicality. Your phrase I think was a less cerebral listen, agreed it is perhaps about the musical whole than the dissection of instuments. From such a humbly priced cartridge it is - surprising! Very pleasantly so! Probably not a cart for all but will be staying put for a while for Shure.

[rubber duck]

Good to hear this Nick. Thanks for starting the thread and thanks again to Peter for reviving interest in the Shure. Another week and following confirmation by several other listeners I have no reason to change my initial impressions.

However, I should report a couple of unresolved issues with the M97XE in my set-up. First, I have not been able to get rid of hum where the Denon DL110 was pretty much quiet. Do you find this noisier than other carts? Second, the Shure is susceptible to what sounds like an intermittent and random RFI, a HF pitch at the threshold of my hearing, probably around 16-17kHz, which lasts a few seconds. I'm still trying to work out if this is more audible during the day time but this is a recent phenomenon which I am wondering might be related to my short but unshielded tonearm wire. The puzzling thing is that the Denon had no issues here.

[Ned664]

Good to hear this Nick. Thanks for starting the thread and thanks again to Peter for reviving interest in the Shure. Another week and following confirmation by several other listeners I have no reason to change my initial impressions.

However, I should report a couple of unresolved issues with the M97XE in my set-up. First, I have not been able to get rid of hum where the Denon DL110 was pretty much quiet. Do you find this noisier than other carts? Second, the Shure is susceptible to what sounds like an intermittent and random RFI, a HF pitch at the threshold of my hearing, probably around 16-17kHz, which lasts a few seconds. I'm still trying to work out if this is more audible during the day time but this is a recent phenomenon which I am wondering might be related to my short but unshielded tonearm wire. The puzzling thing is that the Denon had no issues here.

Hi Jeff, I have not experienced any hum nor any random RFI. Perhaps a little more surface noise than with other carts but that's it.

[Elephantears]

I should mention that I heard Jeff's system with the Shure in last week and it was a bit of a revelation. I understand what paskinn has been saying now. Most importantly, we just had a thoroughly enjoyable time listening to all sorts of things, and with everything we listened to the guts and heart of the music was there. There was some roll off, and this affected various details; the bite of Coltrane's metal Otto Link mouthpiece was smoothed off, but the depth of the tenor was superb; the alienated spacious feeling that Martin Hamnett brought to 'Unknown Pleasures' was sidestepped a little, but only in favour of the dark heart of the music, lending it some of the more primitive feeling that the earliest Joy Division has. I means to get one of those cartridges and put it on my 401. And it will be going through a Croft phono stage too.

[Ned664]

My JICO stylus has just arrived! Will be installing and giving a listen over the next few days and will report back. Sadly I'm quite excited!