How good is a fully upgraded Technics SL-1210mk2 compared to other high end TT?

[Mike_New]

I have a fully modded (except arm and platter - as I'm happy with them) M5G and it does very well compared with my VPI Classic - at this point I can now change between carts etc and have some nice comparisons. I'm extremely happy having two such different tables (light platter/heavy platter, long arm/short arm, belt, direct,....) I wish I could have them side by side - but I just do not have the room.

In short - the Technics is capable of greatness.

Hi Costerdock,
Far be it for me to criticise anyones physical room layout.
But can I say that putting your valve amp. on top of your speaker is a most unwise thing to do.
Valves are notoriously microphonic and will pick up LF vibrations though both the electrode plates and the heaters, (particularly the heaters) No amount of damping (which you may be using) between the amp. chassis and the speaker top will totally isolate the amp from feedback.

[CageyH]

Hi Marco. Waking up this thread again and waiting on your comments...

Things have changed here a little, though. I sold my 1210mk2 (with the MN Bearing) and bought my friend's 1210mk5G. It has all the upgrades as my mk2 did, including the MN Bearing. The mk5G is one good looking TT Finally a shiny G for me too.

And since I desided to do the bearing upgrade I also desided to keep it. I think I will do the full upgrade with the ETP Platter also. My next upgrade will be a new Riaa and most likely the ASR Mini Basis Exclusive. But in the meantime I'm thinking of what kind of arm I should buy. As you know I have the fully modded KAB arm with the fluid damper.

I think I will go with a straight arm without removable headshell and the latest Audiomods arm comes to mind. I'm also curious about the Origin Live Silver. As for future cartridge I will probably go for a Zyx.

Audiomods or OL Silver? Or will a Jelco 750D be just as good? Any comments will be helpful

Straight arm, and fixed headshell? One really good option would be the Funk FX1200, but I might be slightly biased.

[ChrisKemp]

Yes, thank you. I think maybe I have narrowed it down to Jelco 750d, Origin Live Silver or Audiomods.

[CageyH]

The Audiomods and OL Silver were arms I also considered. I don't think you can go wrong with either. I never really considered the Jelco, as it's very similar to the stock arm in appearances.
It's better than the stock, but I have heard mixed reports between it being moderately better to significantly better. I'll let the current users correct me here, but it must be pretty good, as you don't see many 2nd hand.

[MikeMusic]

The Audiomods and OL Silver were arms I also considered. I don't think you can go wrong with either. I never really considered the Jelco, as it's very similar to the stock arm in appearances.
It's better than the stock, but I have heard mixed reports between it being moderately better to significantly better. I'll let the current users correct me here, but it must be pretty good, as you don't see many 2nd hand.

I have a Jelco, available for sale, now upgraded to a Fidelity Research.
Not compared to a stock arm just know the FR is better than the Jelco - as it should be given the price difference !

[ChrisKemp]

But has anyone compared a fully modified Technics to a high end TT; especially:

- JR Transrotor ZET-1 or Fatbob S
- Rega RP8
- Linn Sondek LP12
- Mitchell GyroDeck
- Thorens 350
- Nottingham Spacedeck models

I mean compared to some of the most popular models on market today??

Anyone???

[Marco]

But has anyone compared a fully modified Technics to a high end TT; especially:

- JR Transrotor ZET-1 or Fatbob S
- Rega RP8
- Linn Sondek LP12
- Mitchell GyroDeck
- Thorens 350
- Nottingham Spacedeck models

I mean compared to some of the most popular models on market today??

Anyone???

Hi Chris,

Yes to 2, 3 and 4 (above). I've also compared it to numerous Thorens T/Ts, but not the 350. To my ears, (my own modded Techy) is considerably better than all of them, in the areas that matter and that are important to me. That last bit is crucial, however, as my best may not be your best.

Others who have different sonic and musical priorities may prefer something like an LP12 or a Gyro, which do some things better than any modified Technics will. It's a very difficult question to answer in any kind of way that will be of genuine use to you, quite simply because there as so many variables to consider.

I guess that a very basic answer would be that, IMO, an SL-1200/1210 modified to the same level as mine (or others similar to that) would almost certainly be at the same level of performance as any of the T/Ts you've listed, but some of the ones on your list may do certain things better, and vice versa in terms of the Techy.

Hope that helps a little

Marco.

[costerdock]

Hi Costerdock,
Far be it for me to criticise anyones physical room layout.
But can I say that putting your valve amp. on top of your speaker is a most unwise thing to do.
Valves are notoriously microphonic and will pick up LF vibrations though both the electrode plates and the heaters, (particularly the heaters) No amount of damping (which you may be using) between the amp. chassis and the speaker top will totally isolate the amp from feedback.

Chris - you have my answer already.

Mike (love the bearing by the way) - not a problem at all - and yes - I'm well aware of the potential issues. I've had the amps on the speakers for quite a while - then I moved them off onto my rack as advised by countless others - absolutely no difference in sound quality. I did have microphonic issues - but those were due to driver tubes - which I have since replaced with very good quality NOS GE and RCA tubes - dead quiet - no buzziing or wierd tube feedback. I've since moved the amps back - because the Cornwalls are extremely heavy at 100lbs - they sit on rubber cubs - and are completely secure to the floor - no vibrations - the amps are extremely heavy at @50lbs each - they sit on 1/4 inch rubber along with their squishy rubber feet. Absolutely no microphonics - dead silent - and able to produce concert level sound which is absolutely clear - and both tables handle it very well - I'll give the edge to the Technics - since the Isonoe footers do a much better job at dealing with vibrations due to walking around or drunken slam dancing

Chris - I'd recommend you get a second dream table - that will make you the most happy - I now have two of the tables that I've always wanted and my looking for upgrades has stopped. As Marco correctly pointed out - each table is great - some do things better than the others - but there is no way that I'll give up my M5G nor my Classic now - I love them both.

Good luck!

[ChrisKemp]

Hi Chris,

Yes to 2, 3 and 4 (above). I've also compared it to numerous Thorens T/Ts, but not the 350. To my ears, (my own modded Techy) is considerably better than all of them, in the areas that matter and that are important to me. That last bit is crucial, however, as my best may not be your best.

Others who have different sonic and musical priorities may prefer something like an LP12 or a Gyro, which do some things better than any modified Technics will. It's a very difficult question to answer in any kind of way that will be of genuine use to you, quite simply because there as so many variables to consider.

I guess that a very basic answer would be that, IMO, an SL-1200/1210 modified to the same level as mine (or others similar to that) would almost certainly be at the same level of performance as any of the T/Ts you've listed, but some of the ones on your list may do certain things better, and vice versa in terms of the Techy.

Hope that helps a little

Marco.

Hi, Marco.

Yes, that says alot

The reason why I ask this question again is because I´m now starting to understand how great the Technics is. Since two weeks ago I have tried out two new Riaa in my system. I used to hav the Musical Fidelity V-LPSii + V-PSUii. A very good combo, but has it´s limitations of course.

I also had a little trouble with my Mike New Bearing in the beginning, because the bearing was noisy But Mike and I worked it out. My bearing just took so long to run in. It was running day and night and now it is silent. I can hear it at start up for 1-2 turns then it settles down and I can´t hear it anymore Better treble dynamics and tighter bass is what I get from MN bearing.

The two Riaa´s and my new modified mk5G is really sounding great! One Riaa is the Graham Slee Reflex M connected with my Xindak MC-10 stepup. The other is Audion Premier tube Riaa also connected with my Xindac MC-10. And by the way, the Xindac stepup is a very very good stepup. It was tested in the norwegian Fidelity a couple of years ago by one of Norways hifi gurus and he loved the Xindac´s so much he bought them his self

The midrange of the tube Riaa (Audion Premier) is absolutely fantastic. But it has too much bass for my set up. The Reflex M is in another league! Bass is tight and very dynamic, treble is crystal clear and the midrange is full and airy. It has it all. That is why I wonder; how much better can a different TT be? And now I know that my mk5G is right up there with the absolute best.

Lately I have been reading about the Jasmine LP2.0 mk2 Riaa. The Jasmine has gotten fantastic reviews, both in Norway and in the US, and can compete with Riaa all the way up to high end. So yesterday I ordered directly from the Factory in China, the brand new Jasmine LP2.5DU. This is even better than the mk2 and has the opportunity for two tonearms. Has 55db gain for MM and 70db gain for MC, is silent and has a PSU.

With the sound I have now and possibly even better with the comming Jasmine LP2.5DU that will arrive in two weeks time, I just know that I will keep my mk5G. I´m convinced, Marco and Costerdock

My next upgrade in some months will be the Oyaide MJ-12 (plus the 1mm Oyaide rubber mat). Then I will keep my KAB modified arm with Fluid Damper until I have saved up enough money to buy the Audiomds arm. I have read so much of this Audiomods arm and I just love the way it looks, too.

Thank you, Costerdock and Marco, for helping me making the desition to keep my 1210mk5G. And it looks absolutely great, too

[CageyH]

I'm another happy Graham Slee Reflex M user with a "modded" Technics. I have no desire for another deck based on audio quality alone.