Marco's journey to Tannoy-land

[Marco]

15" Monitor Golds with updated high quality crossovers (using SONIQS caps - link shown below) are due for arrival in the next week

http://www.soniqs.co.uk/ (See type SAX Polypropylene).

When they arrive, the plan is to compare the 15" Monitor Reds to 15" Golds in the Lockwood cabinets and finally decide which ones to keep.

The Golds have a treble emphasis/de-emphasis control fitted as part of the design (although it can be removed), so they will initially be assessed with this in-line with the signal path, set at 'flat'.

If it's immediately obvious that the Golds are better, even with this control present, then it will be removed and the drivers used 'wide open', and then also hard-wired directly to the crossovers, removing the present connector plug. It'll then be job done, and the Reds will be returned to the dealer.

The cable I'll be using for hard-wiring the drivers is CS-14 Hybrid from VDH (thereby maintaining a complete VDH cable loom from amp to speakers):

http://www.vandenhul.com/p_D03AF.aspx

The existing speaker binding posts on the Lockwood cabinets will removed and upgraded to these solder-less high quality gold over solid copper types from CMC:

http://www.hificollective.co.uk/images/cmc858lcul.gif

If the Monitor Reds end up being best, then they'll be receiving the same treatment, although these of course don't have the treble controls. The Golds in original condition will then be returned to the dealer. These will not be modified unless they are unquestionably superior.

Just to recap, the issues under test will be:

1) How my Copper amp with 6 Ohms taps reacts to both the Reds at 15 Ohms and the Golds at 8 Ohms - in short, ascertaining the effects of correct impedance matching between the amplifier and loudspeakers.

2) Taking into consideration the results of the above and the resulting varying sonic presentations, deciding which drive units overall give the best results, musically, in my system. A huge variety of music will be used in the test, and this will be done at some length. The last thing I want to end up with is a one-trick pony, which anyway I think will be unlikely.

Regardless of anything else, this will be quite an educational exercise. I'm not sure how many times vintage Tannoy drivers have been scrutinised and compared in this way. You can't accuse me of not being thorough!

Anyway, it should be fun... Full report will follow soon!

Marco.

[DSJR]

Marco, old Google memories here, but if I find the link I'll post it (it was a link of a link of a link.....IIRC), but I'm sure that 'minus 1' on the level control is actually the straight through "flat" setting, even with the 15" drivers. I think it was someone in Australia who took some 15" MG's and built them into the recommended volume 300L double wall and sand filled cabinets and described the crossover tweaks accordingly. These huge cabs looked great and very menacing when he'd finished them...

[Spectral Morn]

15" Monitor Golds with updated high quality crossovers (using SONIQS caps - link shown below) are due for arrival in the next week

http://www.soniqs.co.uk/ (See type SAX Polypropylene).

When they arrive, the plan is to compare the 15" Monitor Reds to 15" Golds in the Lockwood cabinets and finally decide which ones to keep.

The Golds have a treble emphasis/de-emphasis control fitted as part of the design (although it can be removed), so they will initially be assessed with this in-line with the signal path, set at 'flat'.

If it's immediately obvious that the Golds are better, even with this control present, then it will be removed and the drivers used 'wide open', and then also hard-wired directly to the crossovers, removing the present connector plug. It'll then be job done, and the Reds will be returned to the dealer.

The cable I'll be using for hard-wiring the drivers is CS-14 Hybrid from VDH (thereby maintaining a complete VDH cable loom from amp to speakers):

http://www.vandenhul.com/p_D03AF.aspx

The existing speaker binding posts on the Lockwood cabinets will removed and upgraded to these solder-less high quality gold over solid copper types from CMC:

http://www.hificollective.co.uk/images/cmc858lcul.gif

If the Monitor Reds end up being best, then they'll be receiving the same treatment, although these of course don't have the treble controls. The Golds in original condition will then be returned to the dealer. These will not be modified unless they are unquestionably superior.

Just to recap, the issues under test will be:

1) How my Copper amp with 6 Ohms taps reacts to both the Reds at 15 Ohms and the Golds at 8 Ohms - in short, ascertaining the effects of correct impedance matching between the amplifier and loudspeakers.

2) Taking into consideration the results of the above and the resulting varying sonic presentations, deciding which drive units overall give the best results, musically, in my system. A huge variety of music will be used in the test, and this will be done at some length. The last thing I want to end up with is a one-trick pony, which anyway I think will be unlikely.

Regardless of anything else, this will be quite an educational exercise. I'm not sure how many times vintage Tannoy drivers have been scrutinised and compared in this way. You can't accuse me of not being thorough!

Anyway, it should be fun... Full report will follow soon!

Marco.

I am shocked Van den Hull not Mark Grant or some other better (nearly anything is better) cable. IMHO VDH is veiled and coloured. I would dump that in favour of something more open, detailed and neutral. I have never heard a VDH cable that is right yet...again offered in my humble opinion.


Regards D S D L

[The Grand Wazoo]

I am shocked Van den Hull not Mark Grant or some other better (nearly anything is better) cable. IMHO VDH is veiled and coloured. I would dump that in favour of something more open, detailed and neutral. I have never heard a VDH cable that is right yet...again offered in my humble opinion.


Regards D S D L

Got to admit, I noticed that. Which then got me wondering what became of the solid core twin & earth experiments too???

[Marco]

LOL. Neil, you must have missed when I recently changed my speaker cable from Belden to VDH 'The Wind Hybrid II' (check my signature), shown here:

http://www.vandenhul.com/p_C28.aspx

I agreed with your view wholeheadtedly up until then...

VDH cable suits Tannoys really well (I did my research on this), and also 'The Wind Hybrid II' exhibits none of the characteristics whatsoever I've experienced in the past with VDH stuff, namely it being soft, dull souding, and rather 'bloated'.

This stuff sounds fresh as a daisy, and is one of the most open, dynamic, detailed and musical cables I've heard. The lack of 'diode effect' (compared with twin-conductor stranded cables), and its ultra-low capacitance, due to the single-conductor construction appears to be significantly responsible

I'm not sure if you've used single-conductor type speaker cables before, but you effectively have a dedicated conductor (and, in turn, cable) for the positive and negative inputs of each speaker. This is the first time I've used this type of speaker cable and the results are fantastic. It was a little bright sounding at first, but now it's 'burnt-in', it's just very open, airy, and fluid sounding, and extremely musically coherent, too.

This is what I meant about the importance of keeping an open mind and re-evaluating your opinion, if or when you discover it is flawed, as I mentioned on the cassette thread

I'm hopeful that the CS-14 Hybrid internal wire will have the same effect. If not I'll just say 'bugger it' and fit the same stuff as my speaker cable, but that's a bit more expensive at £50 per metre!

I intend to keep my Mark Grant interconnects and digital cable, though, as those are superb. Anyway, I'll report in due course the results I get when the Monitor Golds arrive

Marco.

[Marco]

Hi Chris

Got to admit, I noticed that. Which then got me wondering what became of the solid core twin & earth experiments too???

That's not done and dusted yet; it needs to be revisited again at some point when Ian brings his new 'beasts' round to compare with my Transparents

Marco.

[Spectral Morn]

LOL. Neil, you must have missed when I recently changed my speaker cable from Belden to VDH 'The Wind Hybrid II' (check my signature), shown here:

http://www.vandenhul.com/p_C28.aspx

I agreed with your view wholeheadtedly up until then...

VDH cable suits Tannoys really well (I did my research on this), and also 'The Wind Hybrid II' exhibits none of the characteristics whatsoever I've experienced in the past with VDH stuff, namely it being soft, dull souding, and rather 'bloated'.

This stuff sounds fresh as a daisy, and is one of the most open, dynamic, detailed and musical cables I've heard. The lack of 'diode effect' (compared with twin-conductor stranded cables), and its ultra-low capacitance, due to the single-conductor construction appears to be significantly responsible

I'm not sure if you've used single-conductor type speaker cables before, but you effectively have a dedicated conductor (and, in turn, cable) for the positive and negative inputs of each speaker. This is the first time I've used this type of speaker cable and the results are fantastic. It was a little bright sounding at first, but now it's 'burnt-in', it's just very open, airy, and fluid sounding, and extremely musically coherent, too.

This is what I meant about the importance of keeping an open mind and re-evaluating your opinion, if or when you discover it is flawed, as I mentioned on the cassette thread

I'm hopeful that the CS-14 Hybrid internal wire will have the same effect. If not I'll just say 'bugger it' and fit the same stuff as my speaker cable, but that's a bit more expensive at £50 per metre!

I intend to keep my Mark Grant interconnects and digital cable, though, as those are superb. Anyway, I'll report in due course the results I get when the Monitor Golds arrive

Marco.

Yes quite right too. I have not used/heard this cable so *I assumed* wrongly that it was typical VDH. I am glad to see/hear VDH rise above the issues I have felt their cables have had for the past 20 years or so...or it may be this is a one off, either way glad it works for you in your set up.

It is dangerous to assume...guilty as charged.

Regards D S D L

[RobHolt]

Marco, if the crossover is anything like the one on the LGM, the level controls change tappings on an auto-transformer. These are actually very good quality and you might not get improvements replacing it with modern components.
I'd be tempted to just replace the caps (the SONIQS are excellent), clean the switchwork and re-wire if you must.
Heavy cable isn't necessary but won't do any harm and regular gauge wire is fine, especially as the driver impedance is high.

[Marco]

Thanks for that, Rob. I appreciate your advice

I'll definitely bear in mind what you’ve said when I'm listening. My view was simply that the treble controls were something 'extra' in the way which wasn't really necessary.

I'm a great believer in the shortest signal paths possible, with minimal 'interruption', and components hard-wired in circuit as much as is achievable, physically and electrically.

The proof of the pudding though, as always, will be in the listening

Dave, if you can find the link you mentioned that would be great!

Marco.

[Marco]

Yes quite right too. I have not used/heard this cable so *I assumed* wrongly that it was typical VDH. I am glad to see/hear VDH rise above the issues I have felt their cables have had for the past 20 years or so...or it may be this is a one off, either way glad it works for you in your set up.

It is dangerous to assume...guilty as charged.

Neil, no worries mate. I've done it myself plenty of times in the past!

Marco.