Tell me about valve equipment

[Giant Haystacks]

yes i was also present with dalek supreme when this experiment took place .,with the reference 3a de capo and the ecofan pre +ecofan triode 45+triode 6a3 the type 45 valve is the darling of big part of the usa amps and especially the diy people and is an actual audio output valve i think there are about 6 or 8 that i can think of so all the correct boxes were ticked .
it was as dalek described the results
i was planning on putting another step down transformer in my quad electrostat and and be able to bi amp them using the 6a3 and type 45,that was the plan anyway at the time
this 6a3 amp is the best match i have found so far for the quad electrostat but at the moment i have only a small room so i am seriously considering the dulcet the tiny brother of the de capo ,the de capo which i have heard is the only speaker where you could hear very clearly the diffarent sound of diffarent makes of output valves sylvania rca tungsol western electric ken rad ect. i was not able to do this with klipsch horn or the quad 57 the sound is excellent but you can hear small changes but not as instant as the de capo

[Giant Haystacks]

you cant go by efficency of speaker my amp which is 5 watts was killed stone dead by diapason adamtes i hope im right on the spelling ,and the spica tc50 was wonderful match and the first was 93db and the spica 84db
it is true with vintage amps you do need to know a good engineer but you will get that , it would be much better than horific chinese with loads of chrome and wood ,and i dont think hifi world should describe there amps at shows as giant killers if it is giant killer it should work at small volume it is good sales marketing , if you do go down this route dont get caught up in change this change that you need this it never ends , i done this all i had many speaker kits and a hifi world 5881 kit this is my opinion

[Ali Tait]

A lot of the Chinese is pants,but not all.Some is actually pretty good IMHO.

[tfarney]

I think this may be the most honest evaluation of valves, and Naim, I've ever read on a board:

There's also something about the ways they have with a musical signal too, whether digitally or analogue sourced. Of course an amp shouldn't distort the signal it processes, but all do to a greater or lesser extent and the trick is to make any distortion as benegn as possible. Well designed valve gear does this beautifully, adding if at all, a touch of "charm" to the music rather than an "edge," so beloved of Naim owners, for example.

I'd only add that the more a valve amp distorts to a "lesser extent," the more it will sound like good solid state. Given proper design and sufficient headroom, the differences are not dramatic. Given neither of the above, charm is preferable to edge every time.

Tim

[lonergan2468]

I am pushing my martin Logans QuestZ with two Opera Consonance M800 SE Mono Amplifiers. The amps can be switched from Triode 35 W to ultralinear 75W. I dont know what this means as I really dont know much about valve tech. The amps are UK models not the cheap import. The triode mode sounds pretty good, and can push the MLs very well.

[DSJR]

There are experts here who will correct me if I'm wrong, but SET mode involves quite a lot of distortion, but I suspect this distortion is not smeared over time as it can be with other methods. Worst case "time-smearing" being with many Japanese "high spec/high global feedback" amps of the mid seventies, which couldn't reproduce fine details and reverb properly even when trying..(OK, there were many other reasons too, but I bet that lots of global feedback judiciously applied to bring the THD right down contributed loads to the lack of sound quality).

[Marco]

I think this may be the most honest evaluation of valves, and Naim, I've ever read on a board:

There's also something about the ways they have with a musical signal too, whether digitally or analogue sourced. Of course an amp shouldn't distort the signal it processes, but all do to a greater or lesser extent and the trick is to make any distortion as benegn as possible. Well designed valve gear does this beautifully, adding if at all, a touch of "charm" to the music rather than an "edge," so beloved of Naim owners, for example.

I'd only add that the more a valve amp distorts to a "lesser extent," the more it will sound like good solid state. Given proper design and sufficient headroom, the differences are not dramatic. Given neither of the above, charm is preferable to edge every time.

Hi Tim,

Long time no hear! Welcome back

I'm afraid you won't be surprised to hear that I most vehemently disagree with both what you've written and the quote above (which bizarrely I can't seem to find...).

Anyway, I don't doubt that what you're saying applies in some cases, where valve amps are badly designed, but it most definitely isn't the case with high quality examples of the breed which have been designed properly by a competent engineer. That is a fact, and I'm sorry, I don't give a monkey's what science, measurements, or your limited experience (with valves) says to the contrary.

Quite simply, my 30W Class A Copper valve amp handles music more faithfully than ANY solid-state amp I've heard or owned - and trust me, the latter (owned & heard) goes into many hundreds!

You'll never see me refer to the sound of my Copper amp as 'warm', 'romantic', 'cosy', 'charming', or any of the other stereotypical traits held of valve equipment in the mindsets of the uninitiated, because it just doesn’t sound like that whatsoever – in fact, the total and complete opposite!! I’m sure that other owners here of high quality valve gear will share my sentiments.

If you think that all valve amps are about is imbuing the music signal with "charm" then, quite simply, you’ve never heard a really good valve amp… And that, my friend, is it in a nutshell.

Marco.

[lonergan2468]

There are experts here who will correct me if I'm wrong, but SET mode involves quite a lot of distortion, but I suspect this distortion is not smeared over time as it can be with other methods. Worst case "time-smearing" being with many Japanese "high spec/high global feedback" amps of the mid seventies, which couldn't reproduce fine details and reverb properly even when trying..(OK, there were many other reasons too, but I bet that lots of global feedback judiciously applied to bring the THD right down contributed loads to the lack of sound quality).

I looked at a review of the M800 on soundsatge, however on close inspection these were not SE refrence which mine are. Sorry I am totally ignorant when it comes to tec talk. The Denon 160 on the Roksan Xerxes sounds good.

[chris@panteg]

Have any of you guy's have used/owned or tried the Border patrol PSU ' its a valve rectified choke input filter 'using a GZ37 .

It can be configured for use with many old and new amps even stereo 20 's

If i ever was in a position to buy another valve amp of any kind ' for me it would have to have this or something very similar as having owned a pair i know the difference it makes.

Every Audio innovations amp made had cheap ' very poor ' solid state rectifiers , they were often criticized as having a loose and flabby bass , these rectifiers just could not cope ' i had 3 powerful and persuasive dems of the Border Patrol upgrade by Gary Dews and Kevin Scott .

There are expensive but maybe someone with the skills could knock something similar up as inside it looks very simple ' i believe the quality of the transformers is critical though.

[Ali Tait]

Nice to see you back Tim!