+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 42

Thread: Is CD doomed?

  1. #31
    Join Date: May 2011

    Location: Somewhere

    Posts: 1,863
    I'm Paul.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WOStantonCS100 View Post
    Oh sure, mastering is important; but, great mastering of a hi-res file... kept, distributed and played back as a hi-res file (unless one's system is tits up)... will still have more to offer than the same shrunk down to 16/44.1 Cassandra Wilson's Traveling Miles is one such CD that gave me a "wow" moment. If it sounds that good on CD, provided it was recorded in a higher resolution, man, I'd love to hear it as an SACD or 24/192 download or on vinyl !!! ***see note at bottom***
    This was released on vinyl though quite rare -perhaps Pure Pleasure will reissue it ?


    I agree. Much like SACD and DVD-A, HD downloads have a long way to go to catch up in terms of choice; but, it's still pretty much a baby compared to the other well established formats. If there is consumer demand, that will change, of course.

    My question is, knowing the industry, how are they dealing with the piracy issue. They keep/kept trying to put anti-piracy schemes into CDs and locked down SACD. Remember downloads you couldn't move to another computer without a hassle (or hacking ). For sure, piracy of HD downloads has got to be on their minds. Currently as a physical format, vinyl most likely has them the least concerned, perhaps seconded by SACD but without the aesthetic appeal of vinyl. If I were a record exec I'd be thinking, charge them a premium price for the vinyl (which they are largely) and not worry so much about piracy. I'd be spitting everything out on vinyl (which seems to be happening), even if I was a analog hating digiphile to the point that manufacturing costs were a moot point. After that it's just money coming in.
    This is not really the case though a lot of main stream titles tend to get a vinyl pressing these days. These are however relatively limited. Vinyl sales are in fact still a tiny fraction of the music market and there is not enough pressing capacity to release everything on vinyl anyway. Nobody is making presses so producers are limited to finding old presses and refurbishing them to meet demand.

    ***Side Note: I recently popped on Jennifer Warnes' Famous Blue Raincoat original. (This, as well as, The Hunter, are supposed to be audiophile gems???) However, minutes into the first song I knew. It just had that harsh early digital thing going on. I began to scour the liner notes and bingo! Mid 80s release recorded on "Sony Digital Equipment". Subsequently, my ears also confirmed that The Hunter, which I bought on CD, was also "DDD". I had previously thought to get the vinyl release; but, now I'm wondering if there is any point in it. Perhaps, if the master was 16/48 there might be a slight improvement; but, I'm thinking the main reason to get this release on vinyl would be... ...for the sake of having the vinyl. I certainly don't think I'd waste my time downloading the album to get a 48kHz digital file over the CD I already have; not enough improvement for the trouble or cost.
    You obviously haven't ever heard the Cisco / Boxstar reissues of FBR (45 rpm) and The Hunter or the very rare Classic Records FBR (withdrawn by Warnes). Plenty of early digitally sourced music sounds much better on vinyl than CD.

    As far as CD is concerned the main impression of it's death is due to media hype and the disappearance of high street outlets. The likes of HMV do not stock a large enough catalogue these days. In fact though CD sales have halved from their peak they are still equivalent to the peak of vinyl production in the 70's. A lot of CD sales were driven by people replacing their old vinyl by the same title on CD. Even today people are replacing CDs with new 'remastered' versions which more often sound worse due to added compression or just being too loud. I can't see the sense in paying nearly the same amount of money for Mp3 downloads rather than purchasing a physical product at 16/44 - can always rip the Cd if you are file only.

    HD downloads are not only limited in quantity but way too expensive. Not the sort of money I would spend for no physical product - basically just the right to play a piece of music. Therefore I still think there is a small market for high res format optical discs. Let's face it most people don't appreciate decent SQ or can't be bothered with the expense and fuss to achieve it. Even a lot of the vinyl expansion is due to style purchases. Kids who like the artwork but don't play the record (just the included CD or MP3) or if they do use very cheap players. No wonder the producers can get away with poor pressing quality.

  2. #32
    Join Date: May 2013

    Location: Cumbria, UK

    Posts: 133
    I'm Nick.


  3. #33
    Join Date: Feb 2011

    Location: South Wales

    Posts: 7,487
    I'm the'greatunwashed'.

    Default

    Well lots of pontification here, with obvious preferences one way or the other

    If you want some recent US figures this makes good reading Nielsen Entertainment & Billboard’s 2013 Mid-Year Music Industry Report

    You can download a pdf document toward the end with full sales breakdowns, which might be surprising for some. Total sales are down in the period by 5.6%. What would be interesting to know is how much music is being stolen by the torrent downloading bastards?

    Simple figures from the report;

    US sales for the six month period up to June 2013.


    CD sales = 78.2 million
    Digital album sales = 60.8 million
    Vinyl LP sales = 2.9 million

    So in the US at any rate CD is not doomed at the moment and its still my preferred purchase medium. The tipping point for me will be when CD's become more expensive than a FLAC download. I won't ever settle for mp3 or lossy music files, or internet streaming services, unless the quality improves. There are however many sites and artists who now offer high quality FLAC files (and other formats) together with complete artwork as a pdf document. When these become significantly cheaper than a CD, I will reluctantly switch to them. I really like the artists who offer an instant FLAC download with artwork and you get the CD in the post a few days later, all for the price of the CD alone - that's really very good from my point of view.

    As most here will know, I don't own a CDP as I'm 100% file based audio now and there are two main reasons for this - firstly convenience as I have a large music library and the main one is that I was able to achieve a superior sound 'in my system' for less money than buying a high-end CDP. The caveat here was my available budget at the time and the fact that I am able to build my own music server, which clearly won't suit or be possible for other people, but it really works for me
    Last edited by Tim; 03-08-2013 at 12:12.
    "People will hear what you tell them to hear" - Thomas Edison

  4. #34
    Audio Al is offline Pishanto Specialist & Super-Daftee
    Join Date: May 2012

    Location: Dagenham Essex

    Posts: 11,215
    I'm Allen.

    Default

    Yes

    Cylinders Doomed
    78's Doomed
    8 track Doomed
    Cassettes Doomed
    LP's Doomed
    7" singles Doomed
    12" singles Doomed

    CD Doomed

    Now the current trend it to buy music on line and get nothing for your money

    No sleeve / No case / No words / No reading , no nothing

    and you need to pay for a internet line , have a means of something to download to

    How long before something else is dreamed up ?

    Most of the above formats have a small following ( Like Me )
    [

  5. #35
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: Cricklewood

    Posts: 9,074
    I'm ILOB.

    Default



    We all doomed you know doomed
    Loves anything from Pain of Salvation to Jeff Buckley to Django to Sarasate to Surinder Sandhu to Shawn Lane to Nick Drake to Rush to Beth Hart to Kate Bush to Rodrigo Y Gabriela to The Hellecasters to Dark Sanctury to Ben Harper to Karicus to Dream Theater to Zero Hour to Al DiMeola to Larry Carlton to Derek Trucks to Govt Mule to?

    Humour: One of the few things worth taking seriously

  6. #36
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Cardiff

    Posts: 111
    I'm Mike.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ned664 View Post
    I have the micro phono stage - it is great, in fact so good I wanted their DAC to go with my CD transport.
    Bit of a long shot, but has anyone compared this to the Trichord Dino?

  7. #37
    Join Date: Feb 2011

    Location: South Wales

    Posts: 7,487
    I'm the'greatunwashed'.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    We all doomed you know doomed
    nice one John . . . to be totally and brutally honest, as long as the artists I like keep producing the music I like and I can play it on my system and I can hear it and it sounds good, I don't really give a rats arse how it arrives. The rest is just window dressing and obsessive nervosa!

    "People will hear what you tell them to hear" - Thomas Edison

  8. #38
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Berkshire

    Posts: 2,739
    I'm Paul.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    I won't ever settle for mp3 or lossy music files, or internet streaming services, unless the quality improves.
    I'd agree with you entirely Tim, however, I'd really like a way of having something physical. The biggest problem I find is the desire to hold, feel my music be it on Vinyl, CD or other physical format and that just doesn't happen with downloaded music.
    Streamer: NovaFidelity X40, Turntable: Rega RP3, Arm: Rega RB303, Cartridge: Audio Technica AT120E, Amp: Belles Aria, Loudspeakers: Quadral Aurum Montan VIII, Rack: Creaktiv Trend 1, Cables: Beresford, Chord, Coherent, MCRU, Rega, TCI.

  9. #39
    Join Date: Jan 2011

    Location: Eastern, US

    Posts: 1,885
    I'm afesteringvinylphile.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Audioman View Post
    This was released on vinyl though quite rare -perhaps Pure Pleasure will reissue it ?
    That would be great if they did. I'd bet my car that the master for this is better than 16/44.1


    Quote Originally Posted by Audioman View Post
    This is not really the case though a lot of main stream titles tend to get a vinyl pressing these days. These are however relatively limited. Vinyl sales are in fact still a tiny fraction of the music market and there is not enough pressing capacity to release everything on vinyl anyway. Nobody is making presses so producers are limited to finding old presses and refurbishing them to meet demand.
    Quality goes every which way and we've all heard the "niche" market espousals; but, I've been watching (and buying vinyl from) websites like SoundStageDirect, among others for years. The number of titles on offer, limited or otherwise, has grown tremendously over the years. The lion share has been reissues; but, I also have seen an ever growing number of new issues on vinyl. However, I agree. Those old presses are doing some serious overtime.



    Quote Originally Posted by Audioman View Post
    You obviously haven't ever heard the Cisco / Boxstar reissues of FBR (45 rpm) and The Hunter or the very rare Classic Records FBR (withdrawn by Warnes). Plenty of early digitally sourced music sounds much better on vinyl than CD.
    Conceded. No, I haven't heard those vinyl reissues and I would certainly hope they would sound better than the CD. It was more of an open ended question I posed. If a press of The Hunter didn't sound any better (to me) than the CD, I would only be buying it for the coolness factor. However, the original pressing of FBR that I have isn't a shoddy pressing. It's actually a very good pressing. Still, the equipment that the music was recorded on to begin with has a very definite sonic signature that is easy for me to hear regardless of the consumer (end-user) format. That sound signature, to me, isn't a "good" or "bad" thing. It is what it is. I just don't prefer it. So, in this case, it's not vinyl or CD that gives me pause. That sonic signature is also apparent to me with The Hunter.


    Quote Originally Posted by Audioman View Post
    As far as CD is concerned the main impression of it's death is due to media hype and the disappearance of high street outlets. The likes of HMV do not stock a large enough catalogue these days. In fact though CD sales have halved from their peak they are still equivalent to the peak of vinyl production in the 70's. A lot of CD sales were driven by people replacing their old vinyl by the same title on CD. Even today people are replacing CDs with new 'remastered' versions which more often sound worse due to added compression or just being too loud. I can't see the sense in paying nearly the same amount of money for Mp3 downloads rather than purchasing a physical product at 16/44 - can always rip the Cd if you are file only.
    Well, that's kind of the point, right? If consumers have to go out of their way to get a format... essentially that format is dead... to them; because, the average consumer is going to go for convenience and ready availability over searching something out. That tends to feed on itself and exacerbate the problem or decline into "niche-ness".

    Quote Originally Posted by Audioman View Post
    HD downloads are not only limited in quantity but way too expensive. Not the sort of money I would spend for no physical product - basically just the right to play a piece of music. Therefore I still think there is a small market for high res format optical discs. Let's face it most people don't appreciate decent SQ or can't be bothered with the expense and fuss to achieve it. Even a lot of the vinyl expansion is due to style purchases. Kids who like the artwork but don't play the record (just the included CD or MP3) or if they do use very cheap players. No wonder the producers can get away with poor pressing quality.
    Audiophilia is not a cheap hobby, generally speaking. I guess we spend money on whatever we deem worthy. I see this as a potential plus for HD downloads for many reasons. I think it's speculative to assume kids don't play the records. Have you peeked in on the vinyl community on youtube? Plenty of folks young and old actually buy the records and play them. I was a record collecting music lover long before I had the money to spend on good equipment. I say; however, young folks get into it is fine with me. I won't deride them because all they can afford is a Pro-Ject Debut. More power to them. As income permits they can upgrade as they see fit, appreciate and unlock the potential in the grooves in time. It's all good to me.
    Lyrics are the ramblings of man, sometimes inspired by The Creator, most often, not.
    But music (melodies, harmonies, rhythms), that's God stuff.
    Always was. Always will be.


    One of the biggest lies ever told was that only certain kinds of people should listen to certain kinds of music.

    (silent) VINYL LP SLIDESHOWS

  10. #40
    Join Date: May 2013

    Location: Cumbria, UK

    Posts: 133
    I'm Nick.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post


    We all doomed you know doomed
    Nice, humour from the pre-CD era...

+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •