LP sound from CDs

[The Grand Wazoo]

It's OK Richard, I understand - we can't give you a trade account because you're not trade & you can't help but talk about your experiences in the industry and you obviously have a deep connection to those particular products. It's a tricky one but also good that you declared your interest in the company so soon after joining as you did.

[DSJR]

Indeed... However, the same question could be directed at Dave, in reference to the CDs!

Marco.

I have done so, albeit a long while ago, and this is why I sometomes come on a little bit strong where iffy record players are concerned Anyway, in very recent times I've been swayed by the tactile and emotional aspects of playing LP's at home, which is also a very important part of the listening experience..

[Marco]

Richard, you wanted a different title under your name? I could put 'PT Fanboy' under it!



Martin, I'll come back to you later!

Marco.

[DSJR]

The Rega RP6 is the obvious candidate. Personally I would wonder about keeping your TT and changing the arm. At the risk of sounding like the marketing department for Funk, instead of just a very old friend of Arthur's, you are not going to love yourself one day in the future if you don't at least make an effort to hear the LSD before parting with any cash. You might think about whether you want the arm and the mat on your TT. Taking nothing away from vector, or any other aspect of Arthurs TT design, it is the F5 arm that blows you away. Not sure whether any UK dealer actually has a working final production version in stock yet, but worth a bit of patience. It's quite "normal" looking for AK as well, so your better half will probably allow it in the living room.

I'm going to be jumped on for saying this, but our good friend hifi dave has both decks available for demo as far as I'm aware. The Rega is so familiar it's easy to be blase about it. The Funk is a lovely looking thing and the arm really does look to be a genuine alternative to the RB series on decks that dislike the Rega.

[Marco]

Joking aside, I have a major respect for PT products, vintage and modern (not to mention the chap who designs them), so I have no problem with recommendations being made, appropriately. For me, Arthur's designs almost always do things, musically, that are beyond the products of most other manufacturers

Marco.

[Oldpinkman]

Thanks marco. Pt fanboy is fine by me. If oldpinkman doesn't make enough of an upfront declaration of interest then that should do it. Arthur is a mate. Pink triangle, the company he founded, left (closed) and moved onto funk firm from, was, 20years ago an exciting, innovative placeto be, in a hifi world that was mainly cloning or very esoteric. Arthur was one designer. Dacapo was the first (only? ) dac to use a discreet dac circuit instead of a chip. Its designer was john westlake. The dc-armed, transconductance pip - which I first heard head to head with an sp8 was designed by Owen jones. Major innovations, not engineered up tinkering. Like the turntable which didn't just go beefier and butcher on a thorens ariston theme, but introduced suspended not floating, the inverted bearing, centre of mass at centre of suspension, non-ringing sub-chassis, dc motor, oh - and an acrylic platter. In one go. There - I've got it off my chest for all time. An exciting place to be. We wanted to change the world. And we did. I like to think this brave new world of variety and freedom from dogma I find on aos today was helped along a bit by that firm.
And pt fanboy - not funk firm fanboy. Although I too have respect for ak's new designs. Did I ever mention that the f5 is really quite good? Jaw-dropping. But I fear we've wandered off the subject of our friends interest in getting a vinyl sound from cds and started flogging him a new turntable. I line up with an earlier post. "If you are happy with your vinyl sound, stick with it". I don't know the amps or the vms30 (I had a 20 once). Its ok. Bit soft, there's more detail to be had, but fairly uncoloured. Again, without knowing every cd player either, I doubt its the extra stability and detail he doesn't like. It will be that flat hardness and fatigue. A dacapo 1307 would be the real recommendatiin from a pt fan-boy, but they are like rocking-horse shit - very hard to find. As a more practical low cost low risk dabble to have a comparison, try a cd6 off ebay for £60. And one of these philips chip jobs like the arcam if u can find one. I found a reference list of the dacs using them on the web, but in 4 hours of trawling through ebay couldn't find any of the sony, marantz or phillips ones. I would have been interested to try. I have heard the quad 66 and the naim before, but not "pimped".

[Oldpinkman]

Sorry Marco. SWMBO has instigated a force-majeure objection. Apparantly it has to be "ESL63 fan boy". We are planning to move to France, and build a house there. As we sit down at the CAD package to design it, I have started with the pair of ESL63's I haven't yet bought, and designed out from there. As I said to Sue - "If we can get the speakers, and the ground level right (the plot is on a slope), the rest of the design will just drop into place"

I think she understands

[John]

These days I hear very little difference between a good Turntable and top of the range digital set up I will admit for those records that are really recorded well I have a slight preference for vinyl, but I can comfortably swap between the two. I sometimes wonder if I spent as much on digital as I have on TT it might be the other way around

[Audioman]

Richard, would like to hear your insight as to how PT came to an end. It was revived later (about 13 yrs ago) continuing the Tarantella plus a then expensive amp and Cd player. Ultimately failed as these were considered too expensive at the time - just look at prices for high end amps a decade later .
Also why did Arthur abandon the PT type designs for those rather domestically unacceptable Funk models (excluding the latest creation) ?

As far as Philips 1541 dacs are concerned - look at late 80's Sony models such as 337ESD, 557ESD (super build quality). They were quite bright and forward sounding compared to later bit stream models. Also I have a Marantz CD65 II Special Edition which uses 1541 dacs but haven't tried it in my present set up. It has rather plasticy lightweight casing and one of those draws that works on cogs rather than belt. Actually feels more substantial than the TEAC VRDS draw but slow clunky operation (though not so much compared to DVD players). From experience anyway may be worth trying these models if you can find them. Still think many later bit stream based models sound better incl the TEAC VRDS. IMO none of these types will give 'LP' sound but can get you close depending on source quality. Can't recall thinking any high end players I have heard left me thinking they sounded like LP either. Perhaps Naim come closest but aren't exactly neutral sounding.

Anyway you can always tell LP from the surface background and intermittent vinyl fill noise judging by some recent pressings I have bought - so in that respect CD will never be equal.

[DSJR]

The Tarantella suffered inconsistant build and had various silly niggly problems, bit like some PT products of old. Excellent service in getting them sorted though, in fairness...

Richard, the VMS range and I think the M20 and earlier M15 range, were characterised by a thick-toned bass, which seemed to get worse as the models went up. The VMS5e is full bodied and pleasant, the 10E was the best toned of them all I thought, the 20E was somewhat clogged in the bass (with a nasty sssting without the cap210 capacitor added) and the VMS30 was just plain awful, the wonderful diamond fitted not really able to shine as it did in the M20FL Super, which itself can have bass issues. The OM, followed by the superior? 500 (VM) range, improved dramatically on these earlier models and of course we now have the 2M range, the bodies of which being more inert than ever