Shure M3D - yet another truly great classic cartridge

[DSJR]

GOT ONE!!!! But this M3D needs a new stylus.....

Have you now tried the N21D Marco? If it's an upgrade as originally intended, I'd be more inclined to order one of these...

[Marco]

Hi Dave,

Good news - It'll be interesting to see what you think when you obtain a new stylus

The N21D has been shipped from the States but hasn't arrived yet. As soon as it's fitted I'll have a listen and let you know how it compares to the N3D.

Marco.

[SPS]

i found an improvement moving over to the 21, although all mine are pattens

i have quite a few of the round and v stylus types.. about 30 in total.. i got carried away...

sorting the softer ones gives the better tracking.. i've found the tracking is the main issue with the m3d .. thats the only issue really.. once your set up is ok for it

steve

[DSJR]

I was given a box full of ancient treasures, many broken though, but there is an Ortofon MC10 II brand new with headshell... There's also a V15 IV, an Empire 2000E IV, and an AT OC30 with intact cantilever but no diamond on the end... Oh yes, a quantity of M75-ED's in various states of wear (how many of these darned things did Shure sell in the seventies?)

I'd like to ask anyone with a few N3D or N21D styli if they've checked the diamonds under a microscope? Shure used lousy quality tips at one time, but I suspect the current "patterns" may well be of better quality. I still flinch at the huge diameter cantilever and wonder if Shure ever did an eliptical version?

[Marco]

i've found the tracking is the main issue with the m3d .. thats the only issue really.. once your set up is ok for it

Hi Steve,

Do you sometimes get sibilance ('sssh' sounds when words with the letter 's' are sung)?

I get a touch of this now and then with certain recordings and wondered if it was attributed to tracking issues?

Headshell and arm mass, including VTF (at 3g), seems optimal (the cartridge is living in my 17g vintage FR headshell), as voices and instruments are clear, detailed and nicely presented, so I'm loathe to add more mass as I feel that it may tip the balance too much in the way of 'fullness', which I don't want.

I just wondered if you had encountered this before and if so what you did to rectify it?

Dave,

Sounds like an interesting box of treasures there! I don't own a microscope, so haven't looked at the tip of the N3D. Interesting that you say Shure once used lousy tips... As my N3D is an original NOS item, this could be an issue, so I suspect that some 'stylus rolling' is imminent!

It'll be interesting to see what the N21D brings to the party. Personally, I don't get hung up on high VTFs, thick cantilevers, or conical styli which are considered to be technically 'wrong'. It's the sum of the constituent parts that counts, after all, not the individual bits in isolation...

Experience tells me that much of the engaging sonic and musical characteristics of classic cartridges which operate with and possess the above is down to the very fact that they are present - quite simply, much of the 'magic' these cartridges have would be lost if more modern and 'accurate' tips were used.

Sure, there may be some sonic improvements gained in the process, but in many cases at the expense of what gives classic cartridges their 'soul'. One only has to listen to any of the non-spherical tipped 103s, SPUs or EMTs for this fact to be showcased in all its glory. The choice of stylus tip is fundamental to the sonic signature of these classic cartridges, but as ever with hi-fi, chacun à son goût.

I’m hopeful that the N21D will simply improve on the qualities of the N3D without altering the 'magic' of the M3D’s overall musical presentation.

Marco.

[NRG]

Marco have you any experience of the Ortofon SPU?

There's a thread over on PFM that's piqued my interest...the 750D seems to e available off Ebay for 330 notes or so and would seem a possible match....mounting it would be an issue for me so I'd have to make a plinth for the SP10...

[SPS]

Hi Steve,

Do you sometimes get sibilance ('sssh' sounds when words with the letter 's' are sung)?

I get a touch of this now and then with certain recordings and wondered if it was attributed to tracking issues?

I’m hopeful that the N21D will simply improve on the qualities of the N3D without altering the 'magic' of the M3D’s overall musical presentation.

Marco.

yes marco, thats the main issue.. thats why i have tried so many stylus
i've not totally eliminated it ... but its good enough now.. it tracks as well as most carts do in my experence..

the softer the stylus, the better
thets why with a well used stylus, the suspension gives.. improving things in my experence ( i'm talking m3 here)

all stylus need to be run in, extra down force and lots of use.. is the order of the day to speed things up.. but be careful...

i found the n21 improved this and other aspects, without any down sides

best of luck

steve

steve

[DSJR]

I'm sure the contact area polishes with running as well, but many cartridges from the seventies had roughly turned and polished diamonds IMO and experience visually. The styli fitted to the better Japanese cartridges were often object lessons in the art of stylus shaping.

I wish I'd had a camera to record it, but the best stylus I EVER saw was from an original Dynavector "Diamond" from the late seventies. The cantilever was better formed and polished than any budget to mid-price stylus tip I'd seen up to that point and as to the exquisite beauty that was the Shibata (?) tip itself, it was a shame to mount the thing up and use it

[break-3]

All this cartridge-rolling talk is getting me itchy to bust out my wallet again. I really have to resist...

[Marco]

Marco have you any experience of the Ortofon SPU?

There's a thread over on PFM that's piqued my interest...the 750D seems to e available off Ebay for 330 notes or so and would seem a possible match....mounting it would be an issue for me so I'd have to make a plinth for the SP10...

Hi Neal,

I've heard quite a few SPUs over the years in different systems, and thus I'm pretty familiar with it, but have never owned one. I aim to rectify that situation at some point soon, though!

What is it you'd like to know?

No doubt the Jelco would suit an SPU really well, but beware of inferior quality items for sale on Ebay - apparently there are some shoddy examples of older models (never used) being sold as new where the bearings have seized.

Marco.