Which Tannoys, folks?

[Reffc]

Ah, thanks for the clarification, Paul. You've got a kind of 'halfway house' then between Monitor Golds and what's in your Turnberrys

Makes you wonder what the new Lockwood Majors would sound like, with 15" HPDs, eh?

See here: http://www.musicosis.co.uk/?p=797

Marco.

Yes,

I spoke with Paul who wrote the review and also with Nick as I was going to buy that pair, but they WOULD have been too big for my room. The 12 inch Tannoys in the Mansfield cabs are as big as I need/want to go. Those Lockwoods are/were an insane bargain. You couldn't make a new set for that, I know, I priced up doing just that based on refurbished drivers, new x-overs, and those cabs being professionally built.

A cross between 15 inch MGs and the Turnberrys is probably a good analogy. They have the energy, response and drive of the Turnberrys with the scale of the larger Tannoys. They're also slightly more detailed sounding than the Turnberrys, courtesy of the crossover fitted.

[Marco]

Indeed, and I understand your issues with space.

However, what I was getting at is that you've already heard how the Mansfields smoke the Turnberrys in certain areas (and my guess is that over time you'll love them so much that you'll not be able to do without those particular strengths), so just imagine what the new Majors would do, with those 15" HPDs, at considerably less cost than a pair of new Turnberrys....

I reckon that the new Majors would give even the current Canterbury SEs a hard time - and folk sometimes wonder why I preach the mantra of achieving the highest SPPV...?

Marco.

[Reffc]

Agreed.

Compared with any of the new Tannoy range (at RRP), the effort needed to resurrect a vintage pair or to buy something like the Lockwoods is a no brainer. I'd say the issue for many 'philes with cash to spalsh is that the idea of choosing the right pair of drivers, sorting crossovers and cabs is all too much hassle if all they want is to buy a ready made solution and that possibly puts some people off (which is understandable). The rewards are there though. All I would say is that the newer cabinets are a lot prettier and more substantial than a majority of the older ones and this has to figure somewhere when making a decision for a living room.

My wife thinks that the Mansfields are the ugly relation of the Turnberrys and she's right, but I can do something about that with patience, time and veneer!

[DSJR]

Paul, any chance of some more info/prices on the new crossovers please? They look superbly done and I hope they perform the way that the HPD's always promised.

[Reffc]

Paul, any chance of some more info/prices on the new crossovers please? They look superbly done and I hope they perform the way that the HPD's always promised.

Hi David

yes, no problem.

The crossovers are designed and built by Mark Pitcher and do perform the way intended, just without the treble energy controls. Mark has taken the advice of Dr Paul Mills of Tannoy when developing this design. Mark also tests the crossovers using a signal generator to ensure as flat a response as possible and its these things that have allowed fine tuning to end up with the current design.

I'll supply Mark's email via PM to anyone interested in contacting Mark about the crossovers but more details are below for the ones I have:

"T" series Mk2 Tannoy crossovers with 4 pin connector supplied.

Yellow MKT Polyester Tannoy grade capacitors rated at 250v;

Re-designed Tabnnoy crossovers with some tweaks (approved by Tannoy) applied:

Using a high grade 1.6mm FR4 (high grade flame retardant) printed circuit board, track layout designed with the “star” earthing principle, with 2 separate isolated independent circuits, one for HF, one for LF, but shipped with input links in for common input (easy removable for separate low and high frequency circuits). So can be used for Bi-amp applications. Five black grommets are provided as mounting “spacers”, along with 5 suitable screws.

Based closely on the Tannoy circuits, with a few tweaks. Use as an upgrade over the Tannoy standard crossovers with the switches, or replacement if yours is missing or faulty. Full frequency tested with from 10 to 30kHz.

Supplied with 4 output cables (2 for LF, 2 for HF), 1 metre, so you can shorten if required, with an upgrade 5A nickel plated brass connector block (with nuts and bolts) to fit to the chassis of the speaker, complete with fixing screws, holes line up with existing holes, simply unscrew (if rivets, drill out carefully) the existing Tannoy 4 pin, cut the wires, strip and screw the speaker wires into one side of the terminal block. Then fix the wires from the crossover to the other side of the terminal block. Alternative supply is the 4-pin Tannoy connector (stocks running low!).

Mark trades on Ebay under the name "beterbyvalves" and his crossovers can be bought direct from there too.

They're good and they're not "foo" money. The HPDs sound bang up to date with these and have noticeably better detail than with the older crossovers.

[Reffc]

Quick update

Mansfields have about 15 hours on them now and starting to sound a little more fluid as the drivers break in. Detail is very good, although still a little brightly lit and it's the midrange that shines through more than anything. It has a palpable real sense of presence and brings the music alive whatever the genre.

Swapping back to the Turnberrys it's clear that these are two very differently voiced speakers. Turnberrys are warmer and more coloured in the mids and lack the upper sparkle but have real visceral power in the bass, a fraction deeper than the Mansfields and very powerful. Not sure which presentation I prefer but extended listening shows that the Mansfields are more detailed in the upper bass with timbre to the notes making things sound real and up close, whereas the Turnberrys place you further back but blow your socks off with the shear impact they generate. A combination of the two would be my perfect speaker.

Some experiments to follow. I can't find much on the Mansfields except that they were designed for full range monitoring and possibly voiced in an anechoic chamber for flat response (always sounding a bit brighter in the average room). Also, the internal acoustic foam is meant o be 3 inches thick and cover everything except the front baffle which has been designed for a certain amount of give to get the right "Q" for the speaker. I've added long lambswool to the acoustic foam and this should help dampen against standing waves, but it does also present an apparent increase in cabinet volume to the driver if over-padded which could reduce bass output.

Also, the bass might be enhanced a little by moving tight to a rear wall, so I'll muck about with them and see what changes are brought. They're good and I'm sure can be made better.

[DSJR]

Ah, are we meeting slightly more? The Turnberry's I heard were gentle up top as set at t'factory and were slightly more coloured than "the other" speakers we've discussed before

I bet these "new old" Tannoys of yours are really lovely and they'll certainly be stable enough with rug-rats charging around...

Now, what are you going to do with the Turnberry's? Could be a bargain coming on for someone?????????

[Reffc]

Ah, are we meeting slightly more? The Turnberry's I heard were gentle up top as set at t'factory and were slightly more coloured than "the other" speakers we've discussed before

I bet these "new old" Tannoys of yours are really lovely and they'll certainly be stable enough with rug-rats charging around...

Now, what are you going to do with the Turnberry's? Could be a bargain coming on for someone?????????

They both have plenty of detail David, but the Turnberrys require more careful set up and are more fussy about amplification. What amp you use has a huge bearing on the sound you get from them which is why they can never be judged on the basis of a single audition at a dealership on one particular amp. They are very balanced sounding with powerful P-P valve amps, not so nice with SS amps (the 2KHz lift seems to be exacerbated by some amps quite dramatically). The only SS amp I liked them with was the Perreaux Audiant 80i. Very good match indeed. Yes, they have some mid range colouration but all loudspeakers are coloured in some way. What they do superbly well is LF grunt and scale and I quite like a slightly warm of neutral mid which is how the Turnberrys are voiced. Not perfect at all, but great with some amps.

By contrast, the Mansfields offer less bass slam, less visceral impact (which is a shame) but are way more neutral across the spectrum as they have been voiced as studio monitors. Deep bass is there but with no lift, as there isn't any porting to boost LF SPLs. What you get is fast, articulate and with great tone. Mid range has a walk-through loveliness about it...hardly any discernible colouration and treble is very very detailed. No need whatsoever for a supertweeter. It's the very first pair of Tannoys which I've heard be so balanced and neutral and some of that has to be down to the excellence of Mark Pitcher's crossover design. As speaker compromises go (and remember this is me talking, and my perfectionist nature tends to make me very fussy) then the Mansfields are pretty darned good. There's a lot to like.

The "however" is that I happen to like visceral bass with real power when called for and the Turnberrys are great in this respect. Haven't decided yet which stay and which go. It's too close to call....chalk and cheese though. I have an opportunity soon to try a Croft pre/VACPA60 Monoblock powers with both speakers and that should (from all amps I've experimented to date) promise to be an ideal match for both, so I can do some in depth comparisons then. The big Luxman and Mansfields work great together. The Luxman and Turnberrys are a less successful pairing.

[Marco]

I thought that Paul and other Tannoy DC fans might be interested in this article:

http://www.allegrosound.com/Tannoy_Dual-Concentric.pdf

Enjoy!

Marco.

[walpurgis]

I thought that Paul and other Tannoy DC fans might be interested in this article:

http://www.allegrosound.com/Tannoy_Dual-Concentric.pdf

Enjoy!

Marco.

Yes, interesting, even though I am familiar with the design details.

Of some worth I'd think to those who have not owned Tannoys and are not aware of the more or less unique design.

Some elaboration on the 'pepperpot' types as well as the 'tulip waveguide' designs would have been useful, as they are still in production.