Richard's hi-fi ranting 'Room 101'

[Ashley James]

Some years ago the audience for Radio 3 dropped to about 25,000 a day. Listeners regularly wrote complimentary letters if the same formula continued, but the slightest change to anything produced howls of protest from what were actually angry intransigent bigots.

Market research was done and the conclusion drawn was that, in order to grow the audience to more reasonable levels, programs would have to change, which would inevitably upset the present lot. There would be a period when listener levels would drop and but it would recover and increase as a broader, more representative and more desirable listener tuned in.

The object lesson was that small or niche groups become increasingly narrow and intransigent and difficult to satisfy without alienating a wider and more representative section of the population. Small niche groups aren't even good for their members and are certainly not producers of new, interesting or creative ideas. They want things to remain as they are.

I'm afraid you're a bigot looking for a World of Bigots and I hope we don't get one.

[Mike Reed]

I empathise with J C BRUM. What on Earth are you ranting about, Richard?

You most certainly seem to have a (silicon?) chip on your shoulder, but I'm mystified about what it is you're grinding the axe for. Maybe it's your phraseology, or syntax, or other aspects of grammar which preclude me from following your apparently sweeping polemic about the hifi industry in general.

I've read so many threads from people criticising the 'rip-off merchants' in audio manufacturing/retailing; these either relating to exorbitant mark-ups, component cost to price-ticket ratios or simply servicing costs (no Naims mentioned). The phrase 'caveat emptor' seems conspicuous by its absence in these diatribes.

Surely this censure of the audio industry can equally apply to many other fields; for example the motor industry, the jewellery business, et al.

Of far greater significance is the unfolding financial hiatus that threatens to negatively influence all these and many other aspects of earning a living, in my opinion.

Back to my Pye Black Box and small world!

[jcbrum]

I think I prefer to stay a cynic. It's more practical, and makes a better use of experience.

[jcbrum]

Have you really got a PBB Mike ? (delete=Richard)

[WikiBoy]

Some years ago the audience for Radio 3 dropped to about 25,000 a day. Listeners regularly wrote complimentary letters if the same formula continued, but the slightest change to anything produced howls of protest from what were actually angry intransigent bigots.

Market research was done and the conclusion drawn was that, in order to grow the audience to more reasonable levels, programs would have to change, which would inevitably upset the present lot. There would be a period when listener levels would drop and but it would recover and increase as a broader, more representative and more desirable listener tuned in.

The object lesson was that small or niche groups become increasingly narrow and intransigent and difficult to satisfy without alienating a wider and more representative section of the population. Small niche groups aren't even good for their members and are certainly not producers of new, interesting or creative ideas. They want things to remain as they are.

I'm afraid you're a bigot looking for a World of Bigots and I hope we don't get one.

You see wrong idea, wrong concept, a marketing mans view on the world. "Unless you grow you die" "Quantity before quality" - tesco tomatoes v the ones my wife grow in her greenhouse. Radio 3 is now a business, it should have stayed a service. I am not in the slightest bit interested in seeing my audience grow unless it is because they find their way *up* to it, DEFINITELY not by me lowering my standards to meet them. The lowest common denominator is always the province of the marketing man as he always wants more. It is why the world is in the state that it is in. What the hell is wrong with wanting less, if that less means more quality. Less people, less raping the planet, less polution, less politics, less marketing, more quality v quantity, more satisfaction, more understanding, more reality. Keep living your marketing mans dreams and delusions Ashley, in the end you just might rule the world and grow to encompass everything. Me I am happy with what I am given.

[jcbrum]

Richard. We live in a capitalist economy, with a democratic (?) government.

You seem to be some sort of elitist communist with champagne tastes and a beer budget.

I don't think you can survive economically without making an unreasonable charge for your services, possibly more than they are worth when compared to alternatives.

Most of us live in the real world, and live by the principles we can afford.

[WikiBoy]

I empathise with J C BRUM. What on Earth are you ranting about, Richard?

You most certainly seem to have a (silicon?) chip on your shoulder, but I'm mystified about what it is you're grinding the axe for. Maybe it's your phraseology, or syntax, or other aspects of grammar which preclude me from following your apparently sweeping polemic about the hifi industry in general.

I've read so many threads from people criticising the 'rip-off merchants' in audio manufacturing/retailing; these either relating to exorbitant mark-ups, component cost to price-ticket ratios or simply servicing costs (no Naims mentioned). The phrase 'caveat emptor' seems conspicuous by its absence in these diatribes.

Surely this censure of the audio industry can equally apply to many other fields; for example the motor industry, the jewellery business, et al.

Of far greater significance is the unfolding financial hiatus that threatens to negatively influence all these and many other aspects of earning a living, in my opinion.

Back to my Pye Black Box and small world!

This is *my* room 101, I can rant and rave about what I want (within the rules of the playground monitor). If you want your own room start your own thread, I didn't ask you to come in and play, you made your own decision.

It doesn't *have* to make sense to you, you know. In fact I am quite pleased if it doesn't because for the audience I seek it does, syntax, spelling or not, it is all largely irrelevent and a factor of time more than anything else.

So start your own one and I will visit and have a prod

[WikiBoy]

Richard. We live in a capitalist economy, with a democratic (?) government.

You seem to be some sort of elitist communist with champagne tastes and a beer budget.

I don't think you can survive economically without making an unreasonable charge for your services, possibly more than they are worth when compared to alternatives.

Most of us live in the real world, and live by the principles we can afford.

Ah! the discussion ends and the veiled insults begin, the last resort of the fool who has nothing intelligent to say - ad hominem!

I am not elitist, I am quality-ist. I am not communist but I believe in sharing above using. I hate Champagne, to me it is fizzy crap. Reasonable is as reasonable does.

I challenge anyone here to publish their cost v end price.

I will go first just for the fun of it :-

A30 power amp for example - I will round up and down to nearest £

Case £24
PCB (built) £56
Transformer £11
PSU caps and rectification £4
Sockets and cabling and sundries £7
Packing materials £7
Ebay and Paypal cost per sale £11

Total £120

Sale price at ebay £300

So direct costs represent 40% of price.

Normal high end market mark up (normally calculated as times 12) would be to £1200. Now taking into account the economies of scale of larger manufacturer this would still mean about £7-800. If costed the way *certain* manufacturers do that would be well over £1200.

This is not meant to blow my trumpet but to put figures onto my argument. I am not in business to give leaches and hangers-on a living, they can go and find their own.

[Mike]

That is the problem Mike, you don't even know who is trying to brainwash you.

A bit extreme, but the subliminal arts are taught in marketing school and NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming) is even sold now as a new age health art

Hmmm ..... Think I'll stick to building kits/DIY whenever I can!

Seems to be a shorter 'food chain' that way.

[WikiBoy]

Hmmm ..... Think I'll stick to building kits/DIY whenever I can!

Seems to be a shorter 'food chain' that way.

Quite definitely, that is how the industry started, it is how I started. It all came about because of the post war government surplus in electronic components. Old bomber radar sets that could be converted into a tele. Green screen but part of the fun. Designers didn't design for finished products they designed for the home builder, like Williamson. As people got more money the market started to get more sofisticated, shops appeared with suited salemen selling Leak and Quad valve amps. Everything was fixed price no one sold anything discount, manufacturers went through wholesellers and wholesellers supplied retailers. Retail price maintenance was part of the system. That ended mid 60's, POP happened, then Rock happened etc, discounters appeared and the market took off. G.W.Smith and co, Laskys, Henry's etc all the old Guv surplus guys jumped on it, but not very professionally, so Comet appeared and finished a lot of them off. Cheap gear for the maases appeared from the likes of Amstrad, who started by building a plinth and plastic cover for the Garrard SP25s. Cheap amps, and even kits kept on going with Sinclair amps. I know I sold them all.

I then went to work for Acoustic Research and discovered the wonderfull world of marketing, being marketing manager for Teac and Tascam they were importing, so believe me I have had first hand knowledge of the lies and bullshit process. But you know what Jesus said give me your repentant sinner

As this thread has been about, the wheel has turned, we are nearly back full circle. A receeding market going back to its roots, enthusiasts - even some who can use a soldering iron. Geeks with solder burns in their trousers