Your dream digital set-up

[Rick O]

Don't forget, the Scarlatti is not designed by Hi-Fi enthusiasts, it is in fact designed by computer scientists and digital engineers whose sole philosophy is; get as much information as possible off the disc, and attempt to retain as much of that data as possible.

Simple as that.

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is a sonic signature?

[Steve Toy]

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is a sonic signature?

An identifiable character trait I guess, in equipment. What is upsampling and how does it actually extract more data from the disc?

Don't get me wrong; I love the Scarlatti and if 33k came my way this is what I'd buy.

[Marco]

There is a catch - it's called upsampling. The Scarlatti uses it and it carries a certain sonic signature when not partnered carefully. Basically upsampling brings dynamics and life to the party. It also brings a superficial sheen to the sound.

I agree, and it's something I've been aware of for a while with upsampling CDPs. I had only heard the Scarlatti once before the show at the weekend (at last year's London hi-fi show in the exact same set-up) and the signature you've defined raised its ugly head all too noticeably again to my ears at the weekend when playing some Bert Jansch:

www.bertjansch.com

You can listen to the track 'Black Swan' that I'm referring to by clicking on the link on the website homepage above.

It's a superb album, very well recorded, and the title track has some beautiful melodies and interplay between vocals and acoustic guitar. When the acoustic guitar comes to the fore more prominently, as the track progresses and Jansch plucks strings more forcefully, on a really good system you can hear the 'attack' of the note as it starts, the reverb of the plucked strings, and then the detail of the note as it decays and fades.

On the Scarlatti the 'attack' of the note as described above was curtailed and its impact diminished - it was as if something had buffed away the rough edges and applied a sonic 'moisturiser'. The grit and intensity that makes this track so beguiling and purposeful was gone, and thus less worthy to listen to as a result. Moreover, it made the whole song sound too 'nice', which I do not feel is representative of how it should sound. I became bored, rather than captivated, which is alien to me when listening to this familiar piece of music.

I have heard this effect before with other upsampling CDPs, so although the partnering equipment, which wasn't to my taste, and less than ideal set-up (the fact that the Scarlatti was sat on a wooden sideboard) would most likely have been partly to blame, I believe that the signature I've described is an inherent by-product of the upsampling process and common to all CDPs that employ this process.

Interestingly, when Steve and me went to the Audionote room and played the same piece of music immediately after through their non-oversampling, non-upsampling £1800 CDP, the CD 1.1x, which also has no digital or analogue filtering; although the presentation lacked the finesse of the Scarlatti - it was clearly not as good a CDP, which of course is to be expected considering the vast difference in price, the signature I have been referring to, or "sheen" as Steve has described, completely disappeared so the sound and hence the music were rendered much more naturally and closer to what I'm used to hearing on my system at home, although the modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 I use is superior, similar to how the Scarlatti has more finesse, but in a different way.

Subsequently I've concluded that upsampling CDPs aren't for me: the process adds something that to my ears is unnatural. For me, as with most things in hi-fi, it's best to keep things as simple as possible, and as far as CDPs are concerned that means strictly Red Book mechanisms and DACs with as little filtering or intrusion of the source signal as possible. Undoubtedly the Scarlatti is a very fine CD player, and for anyone who can listen through the upsampling signature, or indeed be completely unaware of it, and of course, has the necessary funds, it could be the answer and the last high-end CD player you will ever buy.

So Rick, me old mucker, if you were to sell a CD player to me at The AudioWorks I think it would probably need to be a super-duper one from Accuphase (their top model) or whatever, as I have a feeling something of that ilk is likely to be more to my taste

Although, having heard what computer audio is capable of when optimally set-up with a good DAC and playing lossless FLAC files through a decent partnering system, I think that my days of dropping large sums of money on CDPs are very likely over...

Marco.

[Filterlab]

Such a shame the dCS room was demoing with a pair of poor amps (in the context of the system) and on that absurd retro wooden furniture.

I'm sure a potential client would use appropriate isolation furniture and better amps - maybe like the Halcro amps the Scarlatti system was demonstrated in Scotland with - and would set the system up with care. Seems like the demo system was placed on whatever was handy.

Truthfully a system like that should blow one's socks off, and I was expecting it to. I left the dCS room feeling really disappointed especially as i had been raving about the Scarlatti all morrning.

[Marco]

Such a shame the dCS room was demoing with a pair of poor amps (in the context of the system) and on that absurd retro wooden furniture.

Seems like the demo system was placed on whatever was handy.

Rob,

DCS used the exact same furniture (and set-up) at the London show, so it appears that the wooden sideboard described is their stock choice of equipment support.

It therefore leaves me thinking the following of DCS:

1) they don't believe in 'fancy' supports.

2) They think that their equipment is so well engineered/designed that it doesn't benefit from the use of professionally designed equipment supports, which is quite clearly not the case as the same equipment performs substantially better set-up at the AudioWorks with QS acrylic Ref supports, MW cables, etc. It should also be noted that the £9k Puccini which was set-up in the AW show demo room in my opinion completely outperformed the Scarlatti.

3) They're aiming at the lifestyle market where potential customers care only about looks and prestige value, not performance, (a la B&O owners) and hence some type of wooden furniture would likely be what such customers would use. There are many people like this, especially in London, who would not think twice about dropping £33k on a new toy to impress their friends or colleagues.

I sincerely hope it's not 3), as that would be most disappointing.

Marco.

[Filterlab]

1) they don't believe in 'fancy' supports. They're wrong if they don't!

2) They think that their equipment is so well engineered/designed that it doesn't benefit from the use of professionally designed equipment supports, which is quite clearly not the case as the same equipment performs substantially better set-up at the AudioWorks with QS acrylic Ref supports, MW cables, etc. It should also be noted that the £9k Puccini which was set-up in the AW room in my opinion completely outperformed the Scarlatti. I agree mate, the Audioworks system was exceptionally better than the dCS room.

3) They're aiming at the lifestyle market where potential customers care only about looks and prestige value, not performance, (a la B&O owners) and hence some type of wooden furniture would likely be what such customers would use. There are many people like this, especially in London, who would not think twice about dropping £33k on a new toy to impress their friends or colleagues. That would be a terrible shame if the premier digital replay systems manufacturer thought this way - there's B&O for that!

I sincerely hope it's not 3), as that would be most disappointing. Me too mate.

[Steve Toy]

Having heard the Scarlatti system a few times at Audioworks I can confirm that with all the Music Works ancilliaries, Spectral amps or even Accuphase into Peak Consult Princesses or Focal Divas, such a system fronted by the Scarlatti sounded so vividly realistic in both hi-fi and music terms that if you closed your eyes there was a grand piano in the room. The sheen I heard in the dCS room at the show was absent as was the politeness and reticence.

I'd like to hear a similar setup there with Avalon speakers.

It would be great if dCS could be persuaded to let AW set the whole thing up for them at the next show.

[Rick O]

What is upsampling and how does it actually extract more data from the disc?

It doesn't get more data off the disc. but this is what I said

get as much information as possible off the disc, and attempt to retain as much of that data as possible.

What upsampling increases data retention. The law of averages show that if there are multiple of an item (or bit in this case) then you will lose far less data due to exterior noise or interference.

Now, in this case, the upsampling is also used to take averages and smooth out curves in waves using very complex algorithms (and not just be taking mean averages).

This is taking me back to my 2nd year module on media processing.

[Marco]

Rick,

You should have a word with your dad and ask him to invite the decision maker(s) from DCS (in terms of what partnering equipment and ancillaries are chosen to be used with their equipment at shows) to come to your shop, listen to how DCS gear sounds set up on QS Ref acrylic, with Recoil leads, Reflex block, etc, and say, Spectral amps with Avalons or Peak Consults, and compare that with the sound they're used to hearing with their gear sat on a wooden sideboard and powered by bog standard mains leads.

If the demo is successful, and knowing you guys there's no reason why it wouldn't be, then there's no way the people at DCS could contend that the sound of their equipment is not improved. Buy them lunch, and make it a nice day for everyone concerned, because at the the moment it's blatantly obvious to any discerning listeners that their equipment is not being demonstrated to its best effect at shows. If I were in Larry's position I can assure you that's exactly what I would be doing.

The fact is the Puccini in your room at the show trounced the Scarlatti, the way DCS had it set up, and that situation cannot be deemed as a commercial success. Sometimes manufacturers have to be told how it is!

Marco.

[markf]

I would like to hear the latest Spectral SDR-4000S Pro CD player in an all Spectral setup
DMC 30SS/ DMA 360. I like the idea of a single box player.