Which Tannoys, folks?

[tannoyman]

Ain't that the truth!

What the high-end audio industry needs to do is stop pandering to the snobs with more money than sense, who buy into the 'prestige value' of certain brands and treat audio equipment as an 'aspirational' thing, and get back to ground roots and start appealing again to your average PROPER music and audio enthusiast, who's in the game for the RIGHT reasons and who wants the 'biggest bang for their buck', not a 'fancy' badge to admire and a cosy feeling of smug superiority, because they own £15k speakers, or whatever!!

Unless that happens, or until that happens, the high-end audio industry will go the way of the dodo, and all we'll be left with is fooking computer audio and the iPod/mobile phone generation. What a dreadful thought........

Marco.

Hi Marco

Absolutely spot on. I know I am a dinosaur but it grieves me see our superb hobby dumbed down. Computers are work and work is a pain in the arse. Music is pure pleasure and should be kept well away from computers, certainly in my world.

Hell will freeze over before I buy a download or go into computerised music. Computer components are purchased by the pound and should be treated accordingly. However, shooting myself in the foot I own an i Pod contradicting everything I have just said. What a humbug!!

David

[The Black Adder]

Unless that happens, or until that happens, the high-end audio industry will go the way of the dodo, and all we'll be left with is fooking computer audio and the iPod/mobile phone generation. What a dreadful thought........

Marco.

It's up to us then... We shall save the world.

[Marco]

Absolutely spot on.

Glad you agree, as it's what AoS will always stand for, and is at the core of our ethos.

We will always champion what is in the best interests of the 'punter' and challenge the greed prevalent in certain areas of the industry, as it's a disease that could eventually kill our beloved hobby.

However, shooting myself in the foot I own an i Pod contradicting everything I have just said. What a humbug!!

I have absolutely no use for one, so I don't own one. Simples!

Marco.

[Reffc]

Hi Marco

Absolutely spot on. I know I am a dinosaur but it grieves me see our superb hobby dumbed down. Computers are work and work is a pain in the arse. Music is pure pleasure and should be kept well away from computers, certainly in my world.

Hell will freeze over before I buy a download or go into computerised music. Computer components are purchased by the pound and should be treated accordingly. However, shooting myself in the foot I own an i Pod contradicting everything I have just said. What a humbug!!

David

I must admit David, I feel the same way about computerised music but having heard some great sounds played via laptop, it's less the music quality I have a problem with, its the association with the computer keyboard and screen. It's like you never get a break from the bleeping things! It hit home a few days ago...whilst I'm still in convalescent mode I had a visitor who was amazed that I still use "ceeee deeees" (the irony was that he had nothing against the LPs). He found it very odd that all my CD collection wasn't on laptop being "streamed" across to my DAC then the amp.

I responded that I'd had enough of streams for one week (ok, rivers) and that the music didn't really seem to mind if it was stored on the shelves and spun up on the ancient old (2year old) archaic CDP.

[tannoyman]

Hi Marco

My only excuse for my flexible principles is that I cannot get my system in the car

David

Glad you agree, as it's what AoS will always stand for, and is at the core of our ethos.

We will always champion what is in the best interests of the 'punter' and challenge the greed prevalent in certain areas of the industry, as it's a disease that could eventually kill our beloved hobby.



I have absolutely no use for one, so I don't own one. Simples!

Marco.

[tannoyman]

I must admit David, I feel the same way about computerised music but having heard some great sounds played via laptop, it's less the music quality I have a problem with, its the association with the computer keyboard and screen. It's like you never get a break from the bleeping things! It hit home a few days ago...whilst I'm still in convalescent mode I had a visitor who was amazed that I still use "ceeee deeees" (the irony was that he had nothing against the LPs). He found it very odd that all my CD collection wasn't on laptop being "streamed" across to my DAC then the amp.

I responded that I'd had enough of streams for one week (ok, rivers) and that the music didn't really seem to mind if it was stored on the shelves and spun up on the ancient old (2year old) archaic CDP.

Hi Paul

It reminds me of the old mashed potato ad (Yeoman??) with extra terrestrials cackling that earthlings peel potatoes with a KNIFE.

David

[montesquieu]

I can't say I'm too surprised at this. However the reality of the situation is that in production engineering, as opposed to an artisan-type scenario (think the high-end LV horn speakers or Audio Note Fifth Element DAC, for example, where cost is no object and the customers are minor country dictators or Russian oligarchs), action has to be taken to minimise cost while impacting performance as little as possible.

Everything is a compromise and Tannoy learned well from Henry Ford about the psychology of marketing through model engineering (matching price and feature, a bigger driver in this model, a better crossver in that one, a better cabinet over here).

Will Tannoy lose a sale because of crap connectors or poor finish? Well they might ... if they get feedback that they are losing too many they will look again at this particular compromise. My guess is though that they don't lose too many customers from this. Whether that changes if there are more disgruntled customers posting in threads like this one, that would be interesting to watch.

A nice place for dealers to add value though I would have thought with dealer special editions that rectify product deficiencies, for the effort of a decent wax and polish and a box of WBT speaker posts (and maybe some nice internal wiring as well). If customers can be persuaded to pay the extra (or forego a discount).

[Reffc]

I can't say I'm too surprised at this. However the reality of the situation is that in production engineering, as opposed to an artisan-type scenario (think the high-end LV horn speakers or Audio Note Fifth Element DAC, for example, where cost is no object and the customers are minor country dictators or Russian oligarchs), action has to be taken to minimise cost while impacting performance as little as possible.

Everything is a compromise and Tannoy learned well from Henry Ford about the psychology of marketing through model engineering (matching price and feature, a bigger driver in this model, a better crossver in that one, a better cabinet over here).

Will Tannoy lose a sale because of crap connectors or poor finish? Well they might ... if they get feedback that they are losing too many they will look again at this particular compromise. My guess is though that they don't lose too many customers from this. Whether that changes if there are more disgruntled customers posting in threads like this one, that would be interesting to watch.

A nice place for dealers to add value though I would have thought with dealer special editions that rectify product deficiencies, for the effort of a decent wax and polish and a box of WBT speaker posts (and maybe some nice internal wiring as well). If customers can be persuaded to pay the extra (or forego a discount).

I happen to agree with you Tom. Marketing and accountancy are very closely linked and a business plan one would have thought should have a variable in the equation somewhere that included customer views!

As to dealers doing the extra work themselves at the cost of some profit...well the better ones might but the incentive isn't really there if sales are low volume in the first place.

There are a few interesting analogies such as (bear with me) during the 1970's and early 1980's when Laverda imported their triple cylinder machines into the UK, the bike basically needed finishing in terms of engineering, so a company called Jota took up the challenge and most Laverda triples sold were from the Jota stable. Slightly different I know. Same applies with some cars (special tuning models such as STi Subarus). Where speakers are concerned the issue should be as you rightly point out, ie do the cost cutting measures significantly affect performance? If yes, and the "fix" isn't too costly, then it could be considered a no-brainer to make the improvements.

[Marco]

Yes, Paul, but no "fix" should be necessary in the first place on a pair of £15k speakers - they should be perfect in every way!!

Marco.

[tannoyman]

[QUOTE=montesquieu;387718]I can't say I'm too surprised at this. However the reality of the situation is that in production engineering, as opposed to an artisan-type scenario (think the high-end LV horn speakers or Audio Note Fifth Element DAC, for example, where cost is no object and the customers are minor country dictators or Russian oligarchs), action has to be taken to minimise cost while impacting performance as little as possible.


Hi Tom

Firstly Henry Ford is an unfortunate example. He was operating at the 'cheap as chips' mass market sector of the early car market where they definitely did make to a price. In the food industry in which I worked, we called it the belly filling end of the market. The Tannoy Prestige Range is aimed at the luxury end of the audio market where customers expect and demand higher standards, where reputation is everthing, and where you take liberties at your peril. Nothing travels quite like bad news.

You've clearly been the victim of some marketing hype if you believe that Audio Note is different. A little while ago I had a conversation with an audio engineer I know who is very familiar with Audio Note and he told me of a conversation he had with Peter Qvortrup which went something like this.

Q "Peter tell me why are your products so expensive?"

A "Because it makes them desirable"

I suggest that like Tannoy and others, Audio Note treat their customers like the con man's mark. A few years ago I was offered a pair of Audio Note Kegon monoblock power amps which retailed at £28k, for £12k (new) and the dealer (no names, no pack drill) was still making a worthwhile profit. Draw your own conclusions.

Another friend has just had to return a 3 yr old faulty Audio Note preamp, which he purchased new, for replacement of switches and rectification of dry solder joints - just out of warranty unfortunately for him. The cost of the repairs was a substantial three figure sum. I rest my case Milud. The correllation between cost of manufacture and selling price at the premium end of the market is 0. This little example shows that there is also very limited correlation between cost and quality at this end of the market.

Sorry to disagree but even some small supposedly elite boutique manufacturers are at it.

David