Which Tannoys, folks?

[Reffc]

I think that you have a point there David and it extends from cottage industries right the way up to major companies. One of the things that I didn't like was receiving my Tannoys with a couple of pots of polish...it felt like a bit of a DIY cheat and as it transpires, I have had to seal the grain and hand finish it before applying any polish in the first place. I didn't like the formulation supplied so instead have used a blend of beeswax and Carnuaba. I know from experience it'll take a god 10 coats before the finish starts to come up to scratch.

It's one of the ways though that companies like Tannoy can survive in the current global economic climate, but yes, margins are still IMHO generally too high with hifi. For the UK market, dealers could well afford to make slightly less margin on things like this which would allow the manufacturers to concentrate more effort to detail and quality which if properly done are areas that I for one wouldn't mind paying current prices for. Quality matters. The connectors are another hidden area where improvements are needed (and what can be reasonably said is that is one area that needn't hit profitability noticeably at all but can improve performance). Ditto with the way that the spikes/cups are designed but Tannoy are not alone. Most manufacturers fob customers off with almost identical spikes or feet. Its one of the reasons that drove me to coming up with a proper stand, and I can assure you that in the flesh, the quality of finish on those stands is head and shoulders above the finish of the speakers!

[tannoyman]

Hi Paul

I totally agree with your assessment. I actually discussed the connectors issue with Tannoy's MD.( it took me 4 months to get his attention) I said that £200 - £300 would solve all of the connector issues on the WR's. His comment was that £200 to £300 at manufacturing cost equated to £2000 to £3000 at retail price, in other words speakers that cost £15000 to buy cost £1500 to make. Now if I were to be frank I would say that that makes Tannoy greedy b.....ds. They believe that it is their God given right to short change customers. They talk of margins as they were pre-ordained rather than the consequence of a conscious management decision.

Regarding the cabinet finish, I used Fiddes Wood Finishing Oil which works well but nonetheless I maintain that as a customer I should not have to do it.

Anyway I shall alight from my soapbox now. Have a good day.

Kind regards

David

David

PS Good humour now restored

[The Black Adder]

Greedy, maybe but like lots of other companies that have been 'bought out' via foreign investors they will more than likey have very strict targets to make so his hands will probably be tied with lots of red tape.

Sometimes companies are better off being written off if the current cost of production is too high for market to accept.

Obvoiusy I totally agree regarding quality. If I wanted to buy some 15k speakers I'd only expect the best in all areas.

[tannoyman]

Obvoiusy I totally agree regarding quality. If I wanted to buy some 15k speakers I'd only expect the best in all areas.[/QUOTE]

Hi Joe

You have hit the nail on the head. I would take it a step further and say that there is an element of trust in this. When we buy expensive kit we trust the manufacturer to have used the best construction methods and most appropriate quality of components. We are not talking rocket science here. The importance of connectors and cables has been well understood for a very long time now. The Molex driver connector which Tannoy use is an absolute shocker both mechanically and sonically.

The reason I understand this so well is that I had to do my modifications in a particular sequence (as shown in my flow process chart in the paper) This was not done by design it was just the way it had to be done in my case. The particular sequence showed up this issue in stark relief because each operation showed very marked performance improvements.

The sequence was:

1. Clean & reconnect connectors
2. Remove 1st part of connector and make temporary connection
3. Install permanent tag block

I should make it clear that I love the Westminster Royals to bits and they now work superbly and I cannot imagine my music room without them. I just don't like being taken for a ride by manufacturers who pretend their product is 'state of the art' when they know that it is not.

Moan over

Have a good day

David

[Reffc]

Hmmm,

I very much doubt that £200 to £300 at manufacturing stages equates to 10 times that amount at retail. That sounds like a load of old guff you were fed David. For starters, it would NOT take £300 to sort the connections, more like £100 including labour and overheads. Manufacturing costs for a £15K set of speakers are likely to be more like £3K to £5K, not £1500, so what you were told David doesn't ring true.

I would have used an oil finish, but happened to have some Ercol wax which was used to restore an old piece of Ercol furniture, so I used that even though the final finish needs at least 20 coats. I use a car polishing buffer for the final finish!

I think that in the case of Tannoy, it is the accountants that run things but at some stage, companies who run things purely led by accountants need to learn the value of things, not just the cost. Losing UK custom because things like connectors and final finish are cut to the bone is just plain silly. Long term viability if it were considered would drive attention to detail in these areas as the implications, sooner or later, will hit the far East market too.

Alan Shaw manages to turn out a beautifully finished product with all of his Harbeth Speakers, and I would imagine has his company in a pretty good place financially so it can (and should) be done.

[Marco]

I totally agree with your assessment. I actually discussed the connectors issue with Tannoy's MD.( it took me 4 months to get his attention) I said that £200 - £300 would solve all of the connector issues on the WR's. His comment was that £200 to £300 at manufacturing cost equated to £2000 to £3000 at retail price, in other words speakers that cost £15000 to buy cost £1500 to make. Now if I were to be frank I would say that that makes Tannoy greedy b.....ds. They believe that it is their God given right to short change customers. They talk of margins as they were pre-ordained rather than the consequence of a conscious management decision.

Bloody hell...

The above is *precisely* what pisses me off about 'high-end' audio!! I deplore the general lack of SPPV in products. It's this 'greed for gold', by manufacturers (and some dealers) that is partly responsible for the dreadful state that the industry is in!

Is it any wonder why many of us buy quality vintage gear instead?

Here's a thought: maybe if they reduced their extortionate profit margins, to a more realistic level, they'd actually sell more product? I also blame the brainless wonders, with more money than sense, who hand over their cash for grossly overpriced gear, without much thought for value, keeping the prices so high and these greedy fuckers in (some sort) of business.... Tossers!

Marco.

[The Black Adder]

We should get a few people together in the pub... lol, a great point to have a good moan on.

It's tiresome to find out things like this about one of the most regarded audio companies in the world. Churning out stuff for the unconcerned masses. The prestige range should be what it is... Prestige. No cut corners, no cheaping out. They should be the british equivelent of a swiss watch to which the older drivers Tannoy made in the 50's and 60's are now on par with.

The Swiss manage to do things right first time, it costs for sure but the heritage and knowing that it's worth the money is there.

Some companies need to take chances but it's typical british business practice that will only end up being wrapped up because there is no funding/help, regualtion, forethought or enthusiasm in their marketing and no confidence to reach for the zenth.

On another note and being in marketing myself (sorry, just a moan) it's dire to hear companies wanting to push FaceBook and Twiiter rather than getting out there and getting their hands dirty. It's becoming a lazy way of getting noticed... and it DOES NOT WORK FOR EVERYONE. I've had some serious conversations with the Chamber about this... It's becoming very worrying indeed.

[Marco]

It's tiresome to find out things like this about one of the most regarded audio companies in the world. Churning out stuff for the unconcerned masses. The prestige range should be what it is... Prestige. No cut corners, no cheaping out. They should be the british equivelent of a swiss watch to which the older drivers Tannoy made in the 50's and 60's are now on par with.

The Swiss manage to do things right first time, it costs for sure but the heritage and knowing that it's worth the money is there.

Some companies need to take chances but it's typical british business that will only end up being wrapped up because there is no funding/help, regualtion, forethought or enthusiasm in their marketing and no confidence to reach for the zenth.

Post of the year, perhaps?

The bit in bold is the crux of the matter. I have no problem WHATSOEVER with speakers being sold for £15k, £30k or even £100k - providing that there's a bloody good reason for doing so, other than boosting the pension funds of some fat cats, keen on living a life of luxury in their old age (and giving the mug who's bought the speakers a sense of unjustified smug satisfaction)!!

Like you say, £15k speakers should be a totally NO COMPROMISE, no corners cut, design, where all the best available materials and components have been used. There should be no further 'improvements' necessary by the buyer on any speakers costing that amount of money. The fact that they can be improved so easily, as described, is nothing short of ridiculous (and also an utter disgrace)!

Marco.

[Reffc]

Lets not forget folks that its not just Tannoy. In fact, Tannoy are head and shoulders above some others! I can't divulge the manufacturer but I learnt a few weeks ago that one "high end" speaker manufacturer pays around £50 each for it's treble units, uses cheaply veneered MDF cabinets and outsources cross-overs to China. Assembly is done outside the UK. lets just say that the speakers retail here for around £10K but cost the manufacturer less than £2K per pair. Its rife.

Chinese valve amps (most of them). An average one selling here for £600 or so costs less than £100 to make in China with current labour rates, and that includes the valves.

Lets switch outside of hifi and look a Jewellery. A Jeweller friend of mine has told me that most Jewellers won't get out of bed for any deal where mark ups are not at least 500% or more.

Its rife.

At least with Tannoy, we are still getting a well designed and reasonable quality product (lets not over-exaggerate, they are still a reasonable quality component compared with many and there isn't a piece of MDF in sight!) and the driver and crossover quality is good, even though the drivers do not hark back to the Rolls Royce standards of the 1960's and 1970's.

The only other loudspeaker that would tempt me over the Tannoys are the new Art floor standers, but at over £40K that's never going to happen. They are finished beautifully, they are properly internally wired, but at the end of the day, its only hifi for listening to music and a £40K investment I would consider plain silly for a pair of speakers unless I was a zillionnaire.

[The Black Adder]

sure, the Tannoy range is a great range but when you pay 15k from such a well known company you would only expect top notch workmanship throughout.

Sure, I bet they sound superb as stock anyway but you should get what you pay for.