Jason's Techy T/T blog and the arrival of the Jelco 'big boy' c/w

[jakwb]

{Moved from Jason's thread in the The Gallery area}


Marco,
I look foward to your answers and suggestions when you have time.


Anyone else want to give their opinion on a good phono stage for me to look into - your suggestions are welcome.

Jim, to answer your original question. I think you will probably have good luck with the PEQ3 and your SUT. I picked up my AT while on a business trip to Japan. It wasn't much money (<$200) and has served me well. It's very quiet and sounds very good with MM and MC carts. I really don't have any complaints, but I'm just at the stage where I'm willing to invest more to try to get an even better sound.

Jason

[Marco]

Hi Jason,

Some recent updates on my rig:
1. I scrapped my Sumiko & Al spacer/weight combo and picked up a Audio Technica LH-18 headshell. This is a no brainer if you're using a Denon 103 on a Technics 1210. The headshell is great and cartridge alignment is automatic with the threaded holes.

Nice one. The Sumiko is a fine headshell but owing both and comparing them side-by-side using various 103s, the LH-18 beats the Sumiko by a significant margin, giving the sound much more depth and solidity, more impact in the bass, and making the top-end and midrange sweeter and clearer. It's all to do with controlling resonance properly and optimising mass. And like you say, alignment is a breeze. It's as if the LH-18 was purposely built for the 103!

2. Bought a Jelco SA750 off Ebay and ordered the arm plate from Dave at SoundHiFi, so when that get's here I'll be mounting it up. (any advice?)

Dave's your man for that. Did you get the Jelco second-hand or something - if not why didn't you buy it (along with the arm plate) from Dave?

The current DL103 (standard) with my AT PEQ20 really set the hook in me. Next I feel like trying out a 103R and would like to upgrade my phono stage.

Well if you feel like exploring the 103R route give me a shout as I'm selling my spare one. It's mint, boxed as new, and has only had 100 hours or so running-in time

Marco, I've read your posts were you say that a SUT in combo with a good quality MM phono stage is the way to go. Anyone have recommendations for a good phono stage in the <$1000 (~700GBP) range.

Before we go any further with that one, do you have a preference for valve or solid-state, or are you not bothered?

Also, I see lots of folks using the AU23 but that's pricing out near $1000 in the US. I found a local seller for a Denon HA500 (I do realize it's not a SUT but a MC head amp). If I pick that up, what would be a good phono stage to mate with it?

I have an HA500 and it is excellent, if different from the A23. Transformers always give the presentation a different character compared to active devices. As far as SUTs are concerned, with the budget you have the Denon AU-300LC is a no-brainer:

http://www.audiocubes2.com/brand/Den...ng_Trance.html

Why not get one and simply plug it into your PEQ20 in MM mode and see how it sounds? You need an SUT anyway and if you get better results with the 103 than you do at the moment with the PEQ20 in MC mode (which I suspect you will) then you're onto a winner and haven't spent much!

Marco.

[jakwb]

Hi Marco,
Agree with you completely about the LH-18. I think it's the single best purchase/upgrade I've made this year. Love it.

Regarding the Jelco - I had been considering a tonearm change and had narrowed it down to a Jelco for the price and reveiws. Plus I think they're dead sexy looking. I didn't buy it from Dave because it was before I knew about Dave's site. It was like a chicken and egg thing. I bought the tonearm new from a seller on Ebay and then when I was looking for an arm plate, I stumbled upon Dave's 1210 page.
I'm a little bit nervous about the arm switch out. I have never operated on my table before. Is there anything I need to look out for?

I'm definitely interested in your spare 103R. Let's talk in private mail.

Regarding a phono stage, this is where I am very inexperienced because I only have 1 data point - my current one. I know how different cartridges sound in my set-up, but I don't what kind of difference to expect with different phono stages. Is the difference as dramatic as a different cartridge or is it more subtle?

I can pick up that HA500 locally for a reasonable price and play around with using the MM input on my current AT. (good idea ).

I've been looking at both valve and SS units. I'm very curious about valve units. I've read great reviews on the Puresound P10. Do you think that would mate up well with the HA500?

Thanks, Jason

[Marco]

Just going out for the day, Jason - will come back to you on this later

Send me a PM if you want to discuss the 103R

Laters,
Marco.

[Marco]

Hi Jason,

Regarding the Jelco - I had been considering a tonearm change and had narrowed it down to a Jelco for the price and reveiws. Plus I think they're dead sexy looking. I didn't buy it from Dave because it was before I knew about Dave's site. It was like a chicken and egg thing. I bought the tonearm new from a seller on Ebay and then when I was looking for an arm plate, I stumbled upon Dave's 1210 page.
I'm a little bit nervous about the arm switch out. I have never operated on my table before. Is there anything I need to look out for?

No worries. Have you got a suitable arm plate with which to fit the Jelco, and also a tonearm cable? If so, the table will need to be dismantled from the underneath (it's just a series of screws) and the rubber base and bottom plate removed in order for the new arm plate and assembly to be secured and fitted to the top plate of the table. The process is a little time-consuming but not too difficult. Dave will be able to assist via PM or email if necessary

I'm definitely interested in your spare 103R. Let's talk in private mail.

PM sent

Regarding a phono stage, this is where I am very inexperienced because I only have 1 data point - my current one. I know how different cartridges sound in my set-up, but I don't what kind of difference to expect with different phono stages. Is the difference as dramatic as a different cartridge or is it more subtle?

I guess it depends what you mean by "dramatic". Phono stages certainly have a significant impact on the sound - it's a different effect to changing a cartridge but equally as fundamental. Quite simply, if the phono stage isn't up to it then you'll never hear what your chosen cartridge is capable of.

With the Denon DL-103 (and its variants), in my experience, the most important thing is to use it with a properly matched SUT or head amp (such as the HA-500, A23 SUT, or Denon's own SUTs) to ensure that the cartridge is supplied with the correct impedance and loading, and the gain step-up ratio is optimal. The type of RIAA (47k Ohms) MM stage is less critical - simply go for the highest quality option within your price range.

If I were you, the first thing I'd do is try the 103R with the HA-500 into the MM input of your PEQ20, and take things from there. I think you might be impressed with the results

If you then feel that you want to spend more on a phono stage we can look at that later and I'll give you some suitable suggestions within your available budget.

I've been looking at both valve and SS units. I'm very curious about valve units. I've read great reviews on the Puresound P10. Do you think that would mate up well with the HA500?

Yes it would - that was one of the suggestions I was going to make, amongst others. But I'd see how the HA-500/PEQ20 combo works first - take it a step at a time. Sometimes if you make too many changes at once it's difficult to assess what is most responsible for the differences you're hearing.

Hope this helps

Marco.

[jakwb]

Marco,
I did pick up the Denon HA500 and am running it through the MM of my AT preamp. That with the AT LH-18 has really improved the sound of my 103. You are correct that when you put the right pieces in place, the cartridge sings. I really hadn't heard it till now. The bass is much tighter and the mids and highs are beautiful. I look foward to seeing what the 103R sounds like compared to the standard 103.

I did order an arm plate from Sound HiFi made for the Jelco and am waiting for it to arrive. It made it to the US but the USPS tracking is horrible and it's just been telling me that it arrived in NY a week ago with no other updates. I have the Jelco tonearm cable as well, so I'll let you know how things go.

I will hold off on the new preamp for now. I am curious about how a tube one would sound so I'm sure I'll revisit the topic in the not too distant future.

Thanks, Jason

[jonners]

Jason -

I seem to be following a similar path to yours, so I hope you don't mind me posting my findings in your thread.

My Denon DL103 arrived this morning and I soon had it installed in the headshell of my Jelco SA-750 on the 1210. I used some lead sheet (about 1mm thick) for extra mass between the cart and the headshell. The counterweight ended up being almost as far back as it could go.

Straight out of the box, within 5 seconds of putting on Charles Lloyd 'Fish Out of Water' I just went WOW! After the DL110 which I had been using before, this was like going from hi fi to real music. All the positive things people say about the 103 were immediately apparent - the instruments filling the acoustic space, the lovely realistic piano tone, fullness of the midrange etc.

Several things are not yet optimal: At present the arm slopes down towards the cart slightly, so I'll have to make a thicker spacer. Also, I'm using it into the 2k impedance that I had for the 110 and I have to wind the gain up to max. That should soon be sorted - I've just bought a Newcomb TR-91 step-up transformer on eBay. I've also just received a 21V power supply from Paul Hynes, and I'm going to compare that with my current Diy supply using a 317 regulator.

Marco - are you using the standard counterweight on your Jelco arm?

John

[Marco]

Guys, just busy at the minute - will come back on this later

Marco.

[jakwb]

John,
No problem at all. I'm very interested in your experience as we are following a very similar path.

Did you install the Jelco yourself? Did you use an arm plate from Dave (Sound HiFi)? I am wondering what kind of VTA I will have with the Jelco and if I'll need a spacer with my 103 on the AT LH-18.

How much mass did the lead spacer add? I'm also curious about the counterweight. I just noticed that Dave sells a heavier counterweight for the 750. I wonder if that's needed when using a 103 with a headshell mass 18g or over.

Last thing - (this may be a really dumb question, but I've never mounted a new tonearm before) - the bottom of the tonearm is like a spindle that sits in the base and the base gets screwed into the arm plate. What keeps the spindle aligned in the correct position and prevents it from turning?
Jason

[jonners]

Hi Jason

I installed the Jelco myself, using my diy arm mount described here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2173
I have the arm as low as possible, but I reckon I need a spacer about 3mm thick.

I didn't weigh the lead spacer but I've calculated its weight to be around 3.5g. I don't know about the extra counterweight - Dave or Marco should be able to help here.

The arm spindle is secured by a hex-headed bolt in the side of the base. This also allows height adjustment.

John