Phono stages: an observation

[Marco]

Please do, Dave. Perhaps you'll discover another 'giant-killer' like Alex's?

Marco.

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Guys

I Agree

With Marco and Dave.

I have heard a fair few phono stages over the years and it was those that were valve that always sounded best to me. A good MM one with a really good MC step up transformer, mostly appealed to me most. I agree with Marco the designer must have a clear and detailed understanding of the issues involved in translating the delicate signal from the cart to the phono stage to the pre etc. Removing as much in the path of the signal is always to be encouraged, where possible. I think the biggest problem in these digital days is finding enough designers who truly understand those issues.

Many years ago I used to love the phono stage in my Audio innovations 500 amp (passive pre with active phono stage 2 ECC88's and 2 ECC83's) this used with a step up and Audio Note ANV cables. The sound was amazingly good by my standards then, not sure about now though.

One of the best sounds for the least amount of money I have heard was Guy's P10 Pure Sound with an old Tim De Paravachini designed Step Up I have called the Head. The combination only committed sins of omission and none of commission.

The trick is getting all the elements to work together. Tone arm cable inside and out, loading of the cart and gain with no pre-existing noise or added noise. Get this right and magic happens.

I have a few phono stages (the S/H collector in me). A Pass Labs Xono, Chord Coral, and Bat VK10se. And the quality of each really depends on the cart used and how it matches. The Pass labs works well with most of the carts I have and the Chord's not bad but its the Bat which does it for me. Its an all valve design which can be used with inbuilt step ups or direct. Noise levels are good for a valve design. I hook the Bat up via its balanced in and use the balanced out. The phono stage sounds much better this way, with a reduction in noise plus other sonic improvements. The recent number of phono stages offering a balanced hook up, makes sense as Cartridges are dual differential designs being left and right mono in design.

Inside view of the BatVK10Se



Rear view of BatVK10se. All connections via balanced XLR's



I am actually about to do a write up/review on the Einstein The records Choice-phono stage(love the name as I do Patho's design called In The Groove). Photos taken all ready and the units sitting warming up. I have the loan of it for two weeks, while a friend is away.

Einstein The Record's Choice phono stage, with selection of loading phono plugs.



I am looking forward to comparing it with my other phono stages.


Regards D S D L.

[Pete]

The opamps in the previous pics do not bode well for top-level sound quality.
In my limited experience a well implemented discrete design will smoke an opamp based design.

[Mike]

In my limited experience a well implemented discrete design will smoke an opamp based design.

Gotta agree with that.

Must admit my 'valve bias' (no pun intended) though...

[Alex Nikitin]

The opamps in the previous pics do not bode well for top-level sound quality.
In my limited experience a well implemented discrete design will smoke an opamp based design.

Hi Pete,

where exactly did you see opamps on these pictures? BAT is all-valve (chips visible on the PCB are most likely for some power supply and control duties).

Cheers

Alex

[pure sound]

I think he meant in the Karan.

[leo]

I could be wrong but those op-amps in the Karan maybe used as a DC servo, ( so you don't use signal coupling cap), the signal circuitry maybe discrete under those cases?

BTW where something requiring a circuit with more than a few tranistors for the gain a modern op-amp is hard to beat imo, theres far more potential problems with discrete like matching, layout etc
The main advantage with say a discrete op-amp is that you can tap into parts internally you can't with a 8pin IC

[Pete]

I could be wrong but those op-amps in the Karan maybe used as a DC servo, ( so you don't use signal coupling cap), the signal circuitry maybe discrete under those cases?

BTW where something requiring a circuit with more than a few tranistors for the gain a modern op-amp is hard to beat imo, theres far more potential problems with discrete like matching, layout etc
The main advantage with say a discrete op-amp is that you can tap into parts internally you can't with a 8pin IC

yeah I meant the karan. If op amps are used only for a DC servo, then that is pretty good.

[jakwb]

This week or next, I'll have 15 tested phonostages, may be I will reveal all??



Dave

Dave, have you done your tests? Are you going to tell us the results?

[leo]

Some of us sad gits like to see test results