Shuggie's SL-1210 Blog Revived

[Ammonite Audio]

Well, Part 1 of my Blog has gone to God knows where, but I have been tinkering again. Before the forum got nuked, my SL-1210 was singing quite nicely, fitted with a TecnoarmA, 2M Black cartridge, Time Step PSU, and a combination of SRM silicone and SRM acrylic mats (mainly to deal with the Technics' platter lip). I had sent the standard Technics arm off to Audio Origami for a rewire, and was looking forward to trying it out, after reading Gromit's favourable reports in his blog.

The arm came back from Audio Origami, and after several days I fitted it to the SL-1210. Dismantling the underside was quite useful, in that I had not realised quite how much of the deck's bulk is down to the rubber base. I should add that my deck came already fitted with an OL armboard by its previous owner. Refitting the arm was easy, and I managed to get something like the correct VTA by adjusting the arm as low as it would go. I noticed that the arm structure was quite loose, unless the VTA locking lever was really rammed home tight. Fitting the 2M Black and the old Kontraounkt B into new Sumiko headshells was a breeze. Incidentally, these two cartridges have identical running heights - it looks like Ortofon think of everything!

So, to a bit of listening. I can only say that I was hugely disappointed, notwithstanding the fact that that the arm's wires were new. Instead of the easy breathing, open clarity of the Tecnoarm'd deck, there was a coloured, imprecise, plodding sound. Changing to the KB resulted in a more delicate presentation, but still frankly cr@p. One of the LPs that I like to use for comparison purposes is Mary Coughlan's "Tired and Emotional", and the guitar which opens "Nobody's Business" sounded like a kid's plastic toy. Not at all nice, and not something that I could live with. So, the TecnoarmA had to go back on.

I decided to play around a bit with a few variables, starting with the mounting of the OL armboard, which is held in place by Blu-Tak for the time being. I've always thought that a bit of arm decoupling is a good idea, and it costs nothing to try! Furthermore, I noticed that there are some convenient screw points in the alloy chassis to provide some decent support, so I left the rubber base off, but left the heavy plastic tray thing in place. Thus, the semi-naked SL-1210 is now sitting on 3 Stillpoints:



The resulting sound is quite startlingly crisp and clear. There is a really wide soundstage but with decent location of instruments. This thing seems to work! Of course, time will tell, but I shall leave it for a while and evaluate it with a variety of LPs. I have some old Geza Anda Mozart piano concerto recordings on DG which do sort the musical sheep from the goats, so that will be next. But for now, Mary Coughlan is doing very nicely and that guitar sounds very real now.

And yes, those are Shun Mook discs on the CD transport

[Ammonite Audio]

A little update: the naked SL-1210 really does sing. The Mozart piano concertos do come across really well, complete with unmissable sounds of hammers hitting strings (utterly absent when the Technics arm was fitted). More importantly, there is the sense of hearing someone playing the piano, rather than hearing a piano. There is a lack of 'heft' to the sound, though, and I have a feeling that it needs some mass - maybe a Lenco-style CLD plinth would work well? Time to put the rubber base back on and do some more listening!

[jonners]

This is interesting. The thought just occurred to me that perhaps the degree of damping produced by the rubber base could be partially reduced by leaving out some of the many screws that attach it?

John

[Ammonite Audio]

Well, the rubber base went back on the SL-1210, minus the 3 screws fixing it to the alloy chassis points where I had previously located the Stillpoints, so the support system is exactly as before. The result is a mixed bag: some of the leanness of the 'naked' deck is corrected, but there is a feeling that a great deal of the 'life' has been sucked out of it. In short, I did not really want to listen to it very much.

So, I dug the old Kenwood KD-770D out of the spare bedroom and mounted the Tecnoarm/2M Black, to revisit my vinyl reference of the past year or so.



The KD-770D is rather less 'hi-fi' than the Technics, with a slightly softer presentation, but it has 'something' that the Technics lacks. That something is partly a degree of tonal colour, but it is musically rather more satisfying. Going to 'Nobody's Business' on the Mary Coughlan LP, the opening guitar has a real body resonance to it in comparison to the Technics; and moving to the Geza Anda Mozart, the piano is now presented with a nice impression of the instrument having a sounding board fitted. I'm not much good at describing musical flow etc, but if that means wanting to listen, then the Kenwood has it. The Technics is a more precise, mechanical performer in comparison: a pianola to a real piano performance, if you like. Maybe that's going a bit far, and there's certainly more mileage yet in this SL-1210 odyssey (eg the Paul Hynes PSU), but I have a feeling that the KD-770D will be staying. Once I get a service manual, the KD-770D is going off to Paul Hynes for some PSU magic, so the Technics will certainly be staying until the Kenwood comes back.

I have been following in Gromit's SL-1210 footsteps fairly closely, and it does look as though we have both arrived at similar conclusions.

[Ali Tait]

Interesting.I found the same when we listened to various decks at the last Owston.Marco's deck I thought sounded very precise,almost cd-like in a lot of ways,whereas Will's Slatedeck Garrard with homemade Schroeder arm had to my ears a much more organic,tonally colourful and "alive" sound.All personal preference to which you prefer of course.

[Marco]

Hi Shuggie,

Nice write-up and you make some interesting points. The 1210 is of course not the only good quality D/D turntable available, but it is the only one which is currently sold in the UK as a new product, hence why it is discussed so much here and elsewhere.

Whilst I'm in no position to question what you're hearing (and what Gromit is, too - and respect to him for going so far with his 1210) I can't help but suspect that the reason both of you aren't/weren't as 'sold' on the 1210 as many others and myself are is because neither of you used it/are using it with a tonearm that compliments the 1210's sonic signature. Both of you are/were using Rega derivatives, which in my experience are not a good match.

It's no coincidence I feel that those of us using Jelcos and SMEs, etc. (with complimentary cartridges) on our modified 1210s have achieved rather different results to what you're describing.

The bottom line though is that you get something which works in your system and which you consider plays your music to the highest standard; as such I wish you well and hope you find something that ticks all the necessary boxes

Marco.

[Marco]

Interesting.I found the same when we listened to various decks at the last Owston.Marco's deck I thought sounded very precise,almost cd-like in a lot of ways,whereas Will's Slatedeck Garrard with homemade Schroeder arm had to my ears a much more organic,tonally colourful and "alive" sound.All personal preference to which you prefer of course.

Hi Ali,

Indeed; and I completely agree. Changing the modified Technics arm though since then and fitting the Jelco 750 and 103SA cartridge has cured that and brought the 1210's presentation much closer to that of the Garrard - although of course Garrard's will do what Garrards will do nonetheless. Technics D/D turntables will always have a different sonic presentation: more accurate and less coloured, IMO.

It's also worth pointing out that much of the presentation and sonic signature you describe of Will's deck was down to the rare and rather special Ortofon SL-15 (low output version) cartridge he was using, and his excellent D.I.Y 12" tonearm - a total no contest against my (then) 9" Techy arm and DL-103R.

If you had been at the Chesterfest and heard the demo between my modifed Techy and Nick's Slatedeck SP10 (as reported here) you would have witnessed a much closer contest.

Marco.

[Ali Tait]

I'm not saying one is obviously better than the other,it's just personal preference.Your deck sounded very good,just a little clinical to my ears in comparison to the Garrard.Are you any further forward in having a slate plinth made for the Techie?

[Marco]

I'm not saying one is obviously better than the other,it's just personal preference.Your deck sounded very good,just a little clinical to my ears in comparison to the Garrard.

Agreed, although I considered Will's Garrard as better on the day by a significant margin. However like I said, it's a different ball game now since fitting the Jelco arm. Much of the "clinical" sound you refer to was down to the Technics tonearm I was using.

Are you any further forward in having a slate plinth made for the Techie?

Nope, matey, that one won't be happening until later in the year. I have other priorities at the moment - namely further improving my DAC (excellent as it is) to get my digital front end nearer to the sound quality I'm enjoying from vinyl. There are some component upgrades in the offing from Audiocom which I intend to take full advantage of.

How's that ballsy Chinese SE amp of yours doing?

Marco.

[Dave Cawley]

No particular system is outright best for all people and all music all of the time. To get much closer to the Garrard and Ortofon, a SL-1210 with SA-250ST and AT-OC9ML/II would be a more organic solution.

Dave