Listener fatigue

[StanleyB]

I don't quite know what you mean by unamplified? With modern delta/sigma DACs the output stages and filters are already built into the DAC chip, and these have been in the market for decades now. I think designers feel the need to introduce a needless extra stage just to say that they actually designed something. Best thing you can do with the majority of delta/sigma DACs is to use a resistor and a capacitor, nothing more... DIYers have been doing this for years!

It's quite clear you haven't got a clue what you are on about. I suggest that you read up on the implementation documents from the likes of Texas Instruments and Wolfson with regards to the various Delta Sigma chips that they manufacture. Each chip requires a different kind of output configuration. You certainly wouldn't get away with putting a capacitor and resistor at the output of a WM8741 or PCM1792 and expect to get a usable signal that can be sent directly to the input of an amplifier. On top of that, the filters built into some DAC chips are digital filters. That's completely different from the external analogue filter requirement.

[synsei]

I remembered something actually, I bought a mini-t for my bedroom setup last week and I found the treble too much as well, but the overall sound worlds apart from my 30 year old class A that I've had for years. I just used the eq in winamp to take the edge of things there so I wonder how much of my problems relate to the amp choice in my main system. I probably need to spend an evening listening to everything without my new amp in there. I expect I'll miss the detail now though, once you've tasted the champers it's difficult to go back to the cheap cava.

The Mini-T's seem to work particularly well with classic speakers such as my DM2's.

[PLINIUS]

4. exacerbated by 3.

[YNWaN]

So I've rebuilt my old Naim based class A hi-fi....

But Naim amps aren't class A, they are A/B.

people talk about the top end and vocals being silky with Naim.

Not really - people usually make the opposite criticism.

2.My muddy class A Denon AV amp was masking some of the top end.

I very much doubt that the Denon actually runs in much class A either - none of the ones I've ever come across did.

[maxrob200]

IMHO, some combinations of equipment and cables make the sound more "Hi" then "Fi".
Result: A relentless tiring sound which sounds impressive at first listen but fatiques the listener very quickly
Sounds great in showrooms but certainly not for long-term enjoyment

[synsei]

IMHO, some combinations of equipment and cables make the sound more "Hi" then "Fi".
Result: A relentless tiring sound which sounds impressive at first listen but fatiques the listener very quickly
Sounds great in showrooms but certainly not for long-term enjoyment

QED... (oops)

[Yiangos]

Giles, Naim+Monitor Audio will give you exactly the sound you described.StanleyB is right.
Most components nowdays are voiced to sound nice ina showroom but tiring at home after some time.You could audition new speakers and/or replace your pre but how can you be sure everything is fine? You need to experiment a lot and 2-3 days of equipment loan just wont do.The cheapest (not that cheap,mind you) to kinda fix the problem and since you are not using a turntable,is to get a secondhand dsp room correction device.
Copland used to make one as-well-as Odyssey.Check ebey for both. You could go for sound absorbing panels etc,which in my opinion is the better way,but don't be surprised if in the end will cost you much more than the dsp correction device.

[bkgengwe]

i had a similar experience. after I bought kimber cables, I was excited by the level of detail, the space between instruments and the tight bass and and...but I noticed that after a while I couldn't listen to music anymore, I just wanted to switch off the music, after a few more days, my ears actually pained after listening to just one track!!!the horror of it all! I tried to change the speakers, first KEF's, then Q acoustics and finally the Celestions, but the problem didnot go away, I changed cdp, from rotel to NAD, then put in a rotel DAC/sound processsor but things did not improve. then I tried room treatments, a rug here, thick curtains there a picture on the wall but I gave up listening to music, it was too painful. then I changed cables, first QED, at first music became listenable but after a while everything seemed too congested and the bass was boomy and overexaggerated, and did not enjoy the music again, I gave up on hi fi altogether, I just wanted my money back!!!! then I remembered my first cables that I had classified as cheap, but I recallled that I could listen for a long time before I changed to kimber. in came the supra classical 2.5 cables, not expensive and not in your face, no frequency overemphasis, nothing remarkably outstanding until you listen for long periods of time, to whatever music. I'm back to enjoying my music again.my point is components that are initially outstanding often are tiring and not listenable ove rthe long run

[gilesw]

@synsei I've got a mini-t in my kitchen powered from a squeezebox analogue out and connected to dali zensors wall mounted. No issues with fatigue there as it's the kit I listen to most in actual fact. I might try swapping them into my bedroom setup and see if that makes a difference. I will find the source of my treble problems, even if it kills me!

[synsei]

I'm pretty sure it's your MA speakers Giles, sorry. If you hook them up to the Mini-T I predict a rather raucous performance will ensue. The Mini-T can sound analytical and harsh with the wrong speakers...