Listener fatigue

[StanleyB]

Steady state frequency response is more often than not going to show up flat on a scope. But music is dynamic and there is when the frequency response can be far from flat. Excessive highs is quite common in amplified outputs stages in a DAC that then have to use a Sallen-Key or MFB anti aliasing filter. Those kind of filters can easily produce a harsh type of sound if the output stage has been set up for maximum detail and the output uses opamps. FETs transistors and valves were the most obvious cures to the problem, but unamplified outputs are now finding their way into the market with the introduction of DAC chips from several manufacturers.

[Martinh]

Cables and tweeter material won't make any difference, dacs should have a perfectly flat frequency response, the Young certainly does, so it won't be that, if you room is sparsely furnished, perhaps if you have a hard floor or bare walls, that could easily exaggerate the HF, if you try a plug in use one that knocks a few db off at 6-8 kHz and report back.
KR Keith.
If you can measure your room ,that would reveal all!

Yes, don't spend a penny on cables until youve sorted out your problem. The speakers make the biggest difference to the sound IMHO.

You could either try some different speakers or play around with the EQ at the player. Being able to measure the problem would be very useful.

If I had a pound for every " I've got MA speakers and they are too bright/painful " thread that I've read, I'd be quite a bit richer than I am now...

[purite audio]

Speakers/ room does make the biggest difference, hopefully the manufacturer has made the speakers with as flat an FR as possible ,and will have measured them in an anechoic chamber, it would be interesting to get hold of the fr graph for you loudspeakers.
But however the speakers measure at the factory they will be changed by your room, in room measurements are very revealing.
Keith.

[Tim]

Source: custom NAS --> Dell mini 9 squeezeplay -> soundflower eq --> m2tech young --> GD1500HD
Amp:tbi audio millenia battery powered --> naim cable
Speakers: Monitor audio silver 8i

This is your problem IMO - Speakers: Monitor audio silver 8i

Have a read of this - http://theartofsound.net/forum/showp...4&postcount=34

from this thread - http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...284#post356284

MA's have been discussed a lot as Martin has stated, they are fine if you like their sound (lot's of people do) and I will probably invoke ridicule for saying this, but I think as your listening and appreciation of Hi-Fi/music matures, you grow out of what Monitor Audio is able to offer the serious listener. IMO Monitor Audio do the WAF more than enjoyable sound, especially if you like to listen to music for more than an hour. If you listen with your ears and not your eyes, I think they have limited long term appeal.

[hifinutt]

having listened to many class d amps i don`t find them bright , most recently enjoyed a fab homemade hypex with some vivids

some black ravioli under the speakers can help as well as all the other suggestions

[John]

Cables and tweeter material won't make any difference, dacs should have a perfectly flat frequency response, the Young certainly does, so it won't be that, if you room is sparsely furnished, perhaps if you have a hard floor or bare walls, that could easily exaggerate the HF, if you try a plug in use one that knocks a few db off at 6-8 kHz and report back.
KR Keith.
If you can measure your room ,that would reveal all!

Did I say anything about DAC's
With regards to the rest I beg to differ For instence there is a well known cable with a very harsh treble on most systems, whilst intially impressive utimatly tiring
With regards to second differaction this also causes harshness which in our systems due to their deisns are not a issue
Agree around the mearsurements
I was just suggesting their factors room being one of the biggest

I was basising my views on personal experience when I had the Opus 3 even though the speakers are considered soft in the treble I had listening fatigue I did quite a few upgrades to get rid of the issue it was driving me crazy hence my empathy of this sitiuation Once I put the felt around the tweeters I could listen without fatique anytime I took them off I could not, they might of been another way to deal with this issue but believe me I tried everything else
Thankfully I no longer have that as issue as it was a visually horrible solution

[gilesw]

Wow thanks for all the responses. It's good to hear that I'm not the only person with these kinds of setup issues.. AOS really does have a good atmos compared to other audio forums which seem to turn into complete fights over just about anything from grammar to what music someone wants to play! Fact is I hadn't listened to my cd player for 6 months so computer audio really is the way forward for me, over sticking an ipod into a minijack to phono cable that is.

So back to the job in hand. I did give my room some measurements and it's these, and I've attached a photo.

  [--- hifi----    ]
 |                 |
|    2.8hi         |
|                  |4m
|                  |
 |                 |
  [--3.5 m----     ]

I'll be trying all the "free" options and will report back on the best au plugins before I go and demo some new speakers but I suspect the monitor audios are probably the weak link in the chain now.

Oh one thing I did find in my last flat that had a low ceiling, may be 2 metres is that the music sounded totally different depending whether I stood up or sat down with weird booming sounds if I was in the wrong place, so I've certainly experienced first hand the difference a room can make. Not fatiguing but certainly horrible to listen to.

[Yomanze]

Excessive highs is quite common in amplified outputs stages in a DAC that then have to use a Sallen-Key or MFB anti aliasing filter. Those kind of filters can easily produce a harsh type of sound if the output stage has been set up for maximum detail and the output uses opamps. FETs transistors and valves were the most obvious cures to the problem, but unamplified outputs are now finding their way into the market with the introduction of DAC chips from several manufacturers.

I don't quite know what you mean by unamplified? With modern delta/sigma DACs the output stages and filters are already built into the DAC chip, and these have been in the market for decades now. I think designers feel the need to introduce a needless extra stage just to say that they actually designed something. Best thing you can do with the majority of delta/sigma DACs is to use a resistor and a capacitor, nothing more... DIYers have been doing this for years!

[gilesw]

I remembered something actually, I bought a mini-t for my bedroom setup last week and I found the treble too much as well, but the overall sound worlds apart from my 30 year old class A that I've had for years. I just used the eq in winamp to take the edge of things there so I wonder how much of my problems relate to the amp choice in my main system. I probably need to spend an evening listening to everything without my new amp in there. I expect I'll miss the detail now though, once you've tasted the champers it's difficult to go back to the cheap cava.

[realysm42]

Too much of anything in the sound range makes it Lambrini to me!

Balance is key, just because you lacked something before doesn't mean you need to over-compensate...

I'm really glad I never went the MA route from the feedback people have given on here.