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Thread: Could this be a 'giant-killing' tonearm cable?

  1. #541
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    Excellent, and exactly. Let's hope that Neal's paying attention... I sometimes wonder if I'm writing in a different language

    Andrew,

    Why not extend the whole shell over the RCA plug, and better still make it from a non-resonant, non magnetic, RFI/EMI reducing material. This would surely offer the best cover possible??
    Why not indeed? Tell Eichmann!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & regulator mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat with Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight. Isonoe feet & boots. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm with Denon DL-103GL in a Denon PCL-300 headshell, fitted with Funk Firm Houdini and Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp and Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp, fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.

  2. #542
    Join Date: Feb 2008

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    I'm Neal.

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    Please, please don't patronize me. Seriously. The plug body is open at both ends.
    Listening in a Foo free Zone...

    Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

  3. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Sure, Mark. I still say that an aluminum shell will offer greater resistance to RFI/EMI than a plastic shell, even if the former isn't grounded.

    I also don't think that Eichmann would go to the bother of manufacturing two separate shells for their plugs, simply to make one look prettier. They're just not that type of company.

    Anyway, I've made my point now, so will leave it at that

    Marco.
    Yeah perhaps, I'm only making conversation really, arguing for the sake of it. At worst, I don't think the aluminium shells do any harm and they do look nice - don't cost much either (I use them myself); they may provide a modicum of additional shielding too.
    ___________

    Andrew, I'm sorry if you found my posts abrasive, I do tend to have rather a direct written style (though not rude I hope). For my part, I don't expect anyone to take what I write as gospel and am happy for my views to be ignored.
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  4. #544
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    I would think that Eichmann's choice of plastic materials is intentional. They certainly seem to favour minimal use of metal across their line of products.
    Mana Acoustics Racks / Bright Star IsoNodes Decoupling >> Allo DigiOne Player >> Pedja Rogic's Audial Model S DAC + Pioneer PL-71 turntable / Vista Audio phono-1 mk II / Denon PCL-5 headshell / Reson Reca >> LFD DLS >> LFD PA2M (SE) >> Royd RR3s.

  5. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by YNWaN View Post

    Andrew, I'm sorry if you found my posts abrasive, I do tend to have rather a direct written style (though not rude I hope). For my part, I don't expect anyone to take what I write as gospel and am happy for my views to be ignored.
    No worries, I dont tend to take offence at what people post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yomanze View Post
    I would think that Eichmann's choice of plastic materials is intentional. They certainly seem to favour minimal use of metal across their line of products.
    This has been discussed before I think I think Eichmann use plastic to minimise vibration getting into the RCA itself. I could of course be completely wrong.
    SS
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  6. #546
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    I've not read any claims by Eichmann regarding vibration (and, in truth, the weight difference between the aluminium and plastic shells is very small). Most of the design rational expressed by Eichmann seems to revolve around the concepts of electron flow, eddy-currents, defined conductor paths, conductor purity and impedance matching.

    Quote Originally Posted by REXTON View Post
    No worries, I dont tend to take offence at what people post.
    Jolly good, it's just that I got rather a contra impression from your earlier 'rant'...
    Last edited by YNWaN; 31-08-2012 at 18:01.
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  7. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by YNWaN View Post
    I've not read any claims by Eichmann regarding vibration (and, in truth, the weight difference between the aluminium and plastic shells is very small). Most of the design rational expressed by Eichmann seems to revolve around the concepts of electron flow, eddy-currents, defined conductor paths, conductor purity and impedance matching.
    Sounds pretty spot-on to me... shades of Tom Evans, NVA, Trichord & other 'plastic' manufacturers.
    Mana Acoustics Racks / Bright Star IsoNodes Decoupling >> Allo DigiOne Player >> Pedja Rogic's Audial Model S DAC + Pioneer PL-71 turntable / Vista Audio phono-1 mk II / Denon PCL-5 headshell / Reson Reca >> LFD DLS >> LFD PA2M (SE) >> Royd RR3s.

  8. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yomanze View Post
    Sounds pretty spot-on to me... shades of Tom Evans, NVA, Trichord & other 'plastic' manufacturers.
    I didn't want to post this, as I can't find the source again, but I do recall reading that Eichmann produced the aluminium shells simply because they had a number of complaints that the plastic ones were too flimsy. Personally, I don't think they are (unless you are one of the sort that cycles equipment more frequently than underwear), but Eichmann still needs to run a business, so they produced the shell, and charge more for it. Given what they publish about the technical merits of the plastic plug, I would think they wouldn't hesitate to describe how the alu one is superior in some technical (i.e. shielding) way, particularly as they charge more. I doubt they'd leave it to mystery.

  9. #549
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    I asked Yannis what his views were on the subject, and this is what he had to say:

    I read through the comments regarding the shells of the Eichmann bullet plugs and I understand that quite a few of those who contributed have not taken into account (or were aware) of the following facts:

    Shielding against EMI/RFI works in three ways: by reflecting, by adsorbing and by conducting to the ground. The 3rd way is typically the one that carries the most weight in most situations but the other two should not be underestimated.

    The aluminium shells by Eichmann are anodized. This is very important since anodizing is an oxidation process that changes some of the characteristics of aluminium (it is not simply a coating). Anodised aluminium IS NOT conductive (so it cannot be connected to the ground and act in the same way the cable shield does).

    If the aluminium shell was not anodised it would have both reflecting and absorbing abilities and would act as a shield to a lesser degree even if not connected to the ground.

    Other than unsupported claims by cables sellers who use these black anodized shells, I have never come across a valid point on how they can shield the connectors. On the other hand I don't think that anodised aluminium is transparent to the magnetic fields the same way the plastic body is; and if this is the case it does have a role as a shield.

    I am not an expert on anodizing but as far as I am aware the process takes place on the surface of the metal (meaning that its core may preserve some of its initial characteristics and have a reflecting or absorbing ability that offers partial protection from some fields).
    Interesting points about reflecting and absorbing with plug materials in relation to shielding against RFI/EMI, and in that respect, the role of anodising.

    In any case, I'm 100% happy that the aluminium shells, from Eichmann, perform more optimally than the polymer variety, when used in applications where a little extra shielding is beneficial.

    For me, basically, it's this:

    Use the polymer-bodied plugs in high-level signal applications (such as between digital sources and amps, or preamps and power amps), and the anodised aluminium plugs in (more 'delicate') low-level signal applications, such as on tonearm cables, and anywhere else where the handling of low-level analogue signals is involved (and the necessity for a little extra shielding), which is exactly what I've done

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & regulator mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat with Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight. Isonoe feet & boots. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm with Denon DL-103GL in a Denon PCL-300 headshell, fitted with Funk Firm Houdini and Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp and Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp, fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.

  10. #550
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    If I hadn't (rather neatly) applied heat-shrink to the join between my aluminium Eichmann plug covers and the cable, I would be tempted to see if I could hear any difference between them screwed on and removed.

    I have specified anodised finishes before (and suffered many anodising trials and tribulations too). As stated above, it is a chemical process that alters the actual surface of the aluminium and renders it non-conductive. However, the process does not permeate very deeply and the majority of the metal remains as normal.

    ____________________

    You know, if one really wanted the connector to be shielded, a copper tube that is electrically connected to the cable shield, or by flying lead to the pre-amp earth, would be very much more effective. I seem to recal reading about someone trying precisely this - can't remember where now - I seem to remember they were keen on the results though.

    Looking at the WBT connectors, they have moved away from using metal in their plugs and the majority of the internal structure is now plastic on their premium designs.
    Last edited by YNWaN; 01-09-2012 at 10:05.
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