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Thread: Could this be a 'giant-killing' tonearm cable?

  1. #461
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Sheffield

    Posts: 2,025
    I'm Confused.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinT View Post
    Well, I don't think I agree with you Dave. I know how cables trend aurally in burn-in and they never go backwards. Therefore, if I've heard improvements since new then I will either hear no further improvements, or further improvements. QED
    Hi Martin,
    I'm happy with that (meaning I understand you and accept what you're saying, no probs ). Which then raises in my mind why things never go backwards - with relatively simple components like cables I can see why the initial trend should continue to it's conclusion. But amps and DACs and speakers and such that have an almost infinite variety of differing components, each of which may take a different number of hours to reach their final level of performance, some of which may be forwards and some of which may be backwards, why should the net result always be forward if the initial trend is forwards? - it's something that has puzzled me for as long as I have been reading reviews of new audio kit.
    Being honest, I suspect our brains play the major part in reaching those decisions in that you get used to hearing the particular sound signature that you initially liked and it grows on you. Quite often, in the fullness of time, you begin to tire of it and move it on.
    Just my opinion .
    Dave.
    DaveK.

    My System:
    Power: Belkin PF40, Custom.hifi.cables Hydra and DC PSUs.
    Sources: Self built HTPC with Xonar ST sound card, NAD T585 multi disc player, Sony BDP-S350, Squeezebox Touch, Techncs SL1210 (mod'd) + Nagaoka MP30, Thomson Sky HD box.
    Amps etc.: 2 x Mini-T amps, MF-X10D Valve buffer clone, StanDAC 7520/Caiman (mod'd).
    Speakers: Mission 774s with added super tweeters
    Cables: best I can afford and likely to change except Homar's RF attenuated co-ax's and Mark Grant USB and HDMI cables. I also like silver i/cs and speaker cable.

  2. #462
    MartinT Guest

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    I can only think that, at the component level, electrolytic capacitors improve their capacitance and ESR as they settle down. How it works for other components that the sum effect is always an improvement, I don't know. It's even stranger with cables, but I've never yet heard one get worse.

  3. #463
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Sheffield

    Posts: 2,025
    I'm Confused.

    Default

    I have no wish to start another Objectivist/Subjectivist type merry go round but IMO a lot of the 'improvement' takes place after the sound hits the ears rather than before it leaves the kit.
    Put another way, I think we are all far more susceptible to the influence of the brain in such matters than many of us are prepared to admit. No way of proving it of course, that I am aware of anyway, so we will continue to hold our varying opinions. I'm tempted to suggest that the fact that these 'differences' that we hear defy all attempts to measure them might be taken as evidence that they don't exist, by some at least. Maybe we need more sophisticated measuring techniques? I remain totally open minded on the subject myself.
    Cheers,
    Dave.
    DaveK.

    My System:
    Power: Belkin PF40, Custom.hifi.cables Hydra and DC PSUs.
    Sources: Self built HTPC with Xonar ST sound card, NAD T585 multi disc player, Sony BDP-S350, Squeezebox Touch, Techncs SL1210 (mod'd) + Nagaoka MP30, Thomson Sky HD box.
    Amps etc.: 2 x Mini-T amps, MF-X10D Valve buffer clone, StanDAC 7520/Caiman (mod'd).
    Speakers: Mission 774s with added super tweeters
    Cables: best I can afford and likely to change except Homar's RF attenuated co-ax's and Mark Grant USB and HDMI cables. I also like silver i/cs and speaker cable.

  4. #464
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,995
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinT View Post
    Well no, my objective was to find the best possible sound and, for the moment, I am very pleased.
    That's what it's all about, matey. You now have a complete 'loom', a la Yannis, from your T/T to your phono stage. Synergy rules

    The TQ Black (with WBTs) is still good and has taken place in my DAC to preamp position. However, *that* standard TQ will go on sale shortly.
    It's interesting, however, how the TQ, once 'rave of the month' on forum land, has been quite easily displaced by an 'upstart' from Greece...

    So, if you're using the TQ Black (with WBTs) from your DAC to preamp, what are you using from your preamp to power amp?

    The mains cable you've bought recently should also be interesting, but I'm surprised that you didn't just go for the Furutech stuff, which you're going to use on your Powerplant, as a complete mains cable loom...?

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & regulator mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat with Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight. Isonoe feet & boots. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm with Denon DL-103GL in a Denon PCL-300 headshell, fitted with Funk Firm Houdini and Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp and Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp, fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.

  5. #465
    MartinT Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    So, if you're using the TQ Black (with WBTs) from your DAC to preamp, what are you using from your preamp to power amp?
    Aha - you're tracking my thoughts! I've asked Yannis to make me a balanced XLR interconnect from 223.5 ConnectLitz to try out against the TQ XLR.

    However, it's the Ultra Black speaker cables that I really raved about, and I haven't heard anything better yet.

    The mains cable you've bought recently should also be interesting, but I'm surprised that you didn't just go for the Furutech stuff, which you're going to use on your Powerplant, as a complete mains cable loom...?
    I have a thought that the incoming and outgoing cables might perform differently and have different needs. I'm fairly certain that the big Furukawa cable from Mark Grant will keep the Power Plant happy. However, after trying John's silver cable from PP to the Ayre player, I was amazed at the difference. I therefore thought I'd try something similar before I go down the expensive route. 6 x any cable will be expensive, despite recouping some of it by selling the Russ Andrews.

    It's an experiment and I don't mind too much if it fails.

  6. #466
    Join Date: May 2011

    Location: Glasgow

    Posts: 7,696
    I'm Brian.

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    Any more thoughts on the Yannis 223.5 t i/cs Martin. It's interesting that he uses a Litz braid and multiple shields . I've only seen one or the other on i/cs so I'm very interested to see if this works.

  7. #467
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,995
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Arrow 223.5s bound for Marco Towers...

    Just spoken with Yannis (he was away abroad for a week), and a 0.5m and 1m pair of these (the latter without flying leads for use between pre and power amp) will be winging their way to me shortly:





    Look rather shexy, don't they?

    Should be very interesting how they stack up against my Mark Grant G2000HDs!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & regulator mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat with Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight. Isonoe feet & boots. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm with Denon DL-103GL in a Denon PCL-300 headshell, fitted with Funk Firm Houdini and Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp and Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp, fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.

  8. #468
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: Surrey

    Posts: 4,157
    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Just spoken with Yannis (he was away abroad for a week), and a 0.5m and 1m pair of these (the latter without flying leads) will be winging their way to me shortly:





    Look rather shexy, don't they?

    Should be very interesting how they stack up against my Mark Grant G2000HDs!

    Marco.
    Where are you slotting these in ?
    TAD CD / DAC / Pre, Technics 1210, MCRU PSU, Mike New Bearing & Platter, Stillpoints LP1 weight, Speedy Steve Ebony armboard, Fidelity Research FR64FX arm, Ortofon SPU. Aurorasound VIDA Phono Pre Amp, TAD Power Amp, TAD E1 speakers. Coherent RTZ 3 Grounding box, Coherent grounding cables, Creaktiv racks. Coherent Mains Cables. SR Blue Fuse. Interconnects : Coherent and Yannis 223.5 Connect Litz. Coherent speaker cable. Audio Magic Transcendence Conditioner. Coherent mains socket. Mains Filters : , PS Audio Harvesters, Russ Andrews Purifiers, Tacima, Vertex. Black Ravioli and RDC supports. Electric Beach S1NX platforms for TAD CD and Technics. Ferrite chokes everywhere except the above. Ears, brain

    Mike

  9. #469
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,995
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Hi Martin,

    Aha - you're tracking my thoughts! I've asked Yannis to make me a balanced XLR interconnect from 223.5 ConnectLitz to try out against the TQ XLR.
    Lol... So, even though you've got a bit of a mish-mash going on just now, the 223.5s still 'out-synergise' the TQs in that position? Interesting. I'd expect things to get a whole lot better when you have a 'yannis loom' throughout

    However, it's the Ultra Black speaker cables that I really raved about, and I haven't heard anything better yet.
    You haven't heard my Van den Huls yet!

    I have a thought that the incoming and outgoing cables might perform differently and have different needs.
    Not in my experience, but you might be lucky and hit upon a 'magical' combo.

    I'm fairly certain that the big Furukawa cable from Mark Grant will keep the Power Plant happy.
    No doubt it will. I'm going for a 2.6mm core version of the Furukawa, for my copper amp, which will be hard-wired directly to the junction box (no plugs or fuses) containing the incoming 16mm armoured cable for my dedicated mains spur.

    However, after trying John's silver cable from PP to the Ayre player, I was amazed at the difference. I therefore thought I'd try something similar before I go down the expensive route. 6 x any cable will be expensive, despite recouping some of it by selling the Russ Andrews.
    I get that. Hope it works out well for you, dude!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & regulator mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat with Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight. Isonoe feet & boots. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm with Denon DL-103GL in a Denon PCL-300 headshell, fitted with Funk Firm Houdini and Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp and Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp, fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.

  10. #470
    Join Date: Sep 2009

    Location: Essex, UK

    Posts: 3,439
    I'm Andy.

    Default

    Crickey- l cannot keep up
    System; Michell Gyrodec SE/ Orbe Clamp/ Gert Pedersen armboard mod/ HR PSU/ SME V / J7 Tonearm cable/Ortofon Cadenza Black// Jez Arkless Turbo nutter B------ /Trichord Dino+

    Amplification and loudspeaker set up is at the moment being split into two groups, comprising the following;


    1. Same sources as above; SONY TAF-770ES/SONY CDP761E/Cable Talk 3.1 loudspeakercable/ Harbeth Compact7ES2/ Stands

    2. Virtue Audio Sensation M451battery PSU, ClarityCaps upgrade/ Sensation M901/Russian PIO caps with Teflon bypass caps upgrade/ JT Dynamic PSU with various tweaks/ Connex Audio 5N Litz loudspeaker cable, Impulse H6 Loudspeakers.




















    Me so horny- Impulse H6 Horny

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