Rega VTA problem :(

[AlfaGTV]

Hmmm? Now that's interesting, because recent conversations with the good folks at Rega and at Ortofon, have lead me to believe that one cannot use the
Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge with the Rega RB 300.

No mention was made of the 'extender nut'.

Are U kidding? They were, like, designed to compliment each other!
Look at the shape! Even Ortofon themselves have officially said they were meant to work together!

Have been running ALL of Ortofons 2M series on various Rega's and they work excellent together, provided you have VTA adjustment!
On a std Rega table you will need a 4mm spacer, or adjustable. At the moment i own and regularly use 2M Bronze and 2M Black and a spare Red needle.

But! Beware that the 2M series is one of the most sensitive carts for VTA i've encountered! Not adjusted~horrible sibilants...

Best regards
Mike

[Griffy]

Having a problem with the deck running slow right now

New drive belt fitted, and new motor suspension belt also, although the motor mounting is hardly great.
I need to have a fiddle with it, and make sure the pulley is level and the motor is not touching the plinth. Very akward to get right!

[DSJR]

Have a look at numerous Rega setup and service threads we've all contributed to. OLD Regas can run ever-so-slightly fast, although I think this was sorted some years ago.

The MAIN reason for slow Rega decks is that the ball is missing from the main bearing. The rounded spindle edge, coupled with the radiused bottom of the brass bearing "cup" means the bearing will run, but slightly stiffly, without the ball in the bottom.

EASY way to check this. Remove the belt, replace the platter and give it a little push. The platter should run for ages before gradually coming to a stop. Ball-less, it'll run but stop fairly smartly.

The ball is a standard size and Rega will probably post you one of you ask 'em nicely. A drop or three of EP80 gear oil, as Rega use, will ensure the next twenty years of reliability. The spindle tip should be clean and with little more than a tiny dimple on the end. Run dry for a while, the ball causes a very large concave section on the flat spindle-tip. No need for ruby style balls, the steel one fitted is perfectly hard enough thak you

The bearing nut should be firmly tight - don't go mad - and the motor should be free to bounce around if original. The pulley sometimes appears to lean towards the platter slightly, quite ok, and vertical from the front or back and this can be carefully fiddled. The fixed motor of the 2000 issue P3 had a different circuit board, a circuit of which I'd like to see, as it could make for a cheap mod to the Thorens 150/160 motors too...

[Barry]

In my experience, Rega have always been most helpful and knowledgeable - bending over backwards to help when needed.

It is true that the "RB300 was not designed to be used with the Ortofon cartridge" in question, because the RB300 was designed back in 1982, a full 24 years before the Ortofon Blue.

As I said previously, I have fitted many Ortofon Blue and Red cartridges to the RB300 and now the 301 and 303. My own demo RP3 has a Blue fitted. It went on easily, was no trouble to set up and sounds great, so I don't know where the confusion stems from.

Over the years from when the RB300 was introduced, I have fitted and used, without a hitch, literally thousands of cartridges from Ortofon, Rega, Goldring, Dynavector, A&R, Audio Technica, Fidelity Research, Linn and even Decca and Koetsu. So, a little ol' Ortofon Blue is not going to be a problem.

The sleeved nut is used with older Planar turntables which have the larger cutout on the baseboard. It takes up the space, nothing more.

I was only reporting the conversation my friend had with Rega. And I repeat, at no time was the use of extender nuts mentioned.

I have very little experience with Rega arms save for setting up an Ortofon MF25 in a Rega RB200 arm - and that was a pain in the arse: not over problems of VTA, but in setting up the overhang; the bias could not be dialled out.

It would seem that a 4mm thick spacer needs to be used. Curiously during a conversation with the Rega dealer, again no mention was made of the spacer/extender nut.

To use the excuse that the arm was designed 24 years before the cartridge is a little disingenuous. All my SME arms were designed in the '60s and yet I have sucessfully used them with cartidges designed in the '90s.

[hifi_dave]

I was merely commenting on your quote the "RB300 was not designed" to be used with that Ortofon cartridges. Of course it wasn't because that cartridge hadn't been invented. So, that conversation couldn't have happened. The SME arm also wasn't designed with the Ortofon 2M Blue in mind but it works just fine.

The RB300 was designed as a universal arm, giving great sounds, reliably, easily and at a budget price. I guess that aim has materialised because it is one of the biggest selling arms, ever.

I can set up a Rega arm with cartridge in under 10 minutes. OK, I have done this literally thousands of times but it is really a doddle. As for the bias, it is well known that the bias will always have some effect because it is based on opposing magnets. Dial in a little tracking force and the bias doesn't intrude in the setting up process.

The sleeved nut is required with the old R200 arm and with later arms fitted to an old style plinth having a larger diameter cutout. I'm surprised that a "Rega dealer" wasn't aware of this. I would imagine his knowledge doesn't extend that far back in time !!!

[DSJR]

Barry, the R200 arm (not RB200) was made by Lustre (or their manufacturer) using similar high quality bits to the PL71 tonearm. The performance from this is excellent if limited by the fixed height and the bias belt, which ages and fractures, can now be replaced by Johnnie at Audio origami I understand. I'm sure I did some myself years ago from a video-toothed belt replacement, but i couldn't remember the particular part and the suppliers SEME have now changed direction...

Right, now the the RB tonearms, of which Dave W and I have extensive experience commercially (and personal in my case as I used one successfully on an LP12 at one time and somewhere have the pics to prove it! )

The old Planar 3's had a slightly larger fixing hole to modern examples and the way they were mounted was via a fixed tapered plastic spacer on top (necessary for the R200 to work). Underneath, the extended washer fitted in the hole in the plinth and located the whole assembly. Once the RB300 came along, the hole in the plinth became smaller, still allowing the current thin nut to be used for fixing, and a good few years later, the plinth was revised for a thinner material I believe from memory, although I can't be sure on this latter...

The 2M cartridges do seem to be quite tall, necessitating a spacer perhaps (although I'd try using it without, as cartridges tend to sound better slightly down compared to slightly up at the rear - a personal vibe this though). Later RB300's have that cheapskate () narrow but larger diameter counterweight, this having to be replaced with the original but now expensive tungsten one Rega used to use on older examples if the lid is still to fit, if only as a dust guard when not playing. I can see no other reason why a 2M couldn't be used to fantastic advantage on an RB tonearm and if you like, I'll email their sales manager to find out if he knows of any other reason Dave and I don't, as to suitability.

As to the nut underneath the arm, One or two dealers who've been selling Rega for decades may just have one of these ex-R200 nuts in a drawer somewhere. Maybe Michell Engineering could make something up, or have ssummat available ex-stock, I don't know.

Bottom line(s). Back in 1983, Rega were an extremely smug, insular, self assured and subtly patronising company and did things to suit only themselves. Roy gandy made a point of making out he "listened" to what the market wanted, then told everyone firmly what his plans were, which were often the opposite of what "we" aksed for en masse. The RB height was optimised for their own shallow cartridges on their Planar turntables and it possibly took the company back then by surprise when these arms became so popular on the OEM and separates market.

Hope this helps a bit. I'm glad to say that Rega were changing by the late 90's and are a VERY different company internally from "my" early days selling and servicing them in the late 70's and 80's. I came back to them in 1998 for several years and found it gratifying to see where they were going and my continued enthusiasm for their products is a mix of old memories of customer care and actually liking what they now manufacture..

[Griffy]

Thanks for all the information above and kind advice.

Later on this evening I hope to get things all sorted out, and I will soon have a Rega extended nut thanks to Hifi Dave. With my standard nut, there is not many threads to grip on to. The extended nut will make it a much better fit and enable VTA adjustment if required (especially if I upgrade the platter or mat in the future)

With my VTA adjuster, dialed right to the top, it just acts like a spacer, and the height of the 2M Blue looks spot on!

I bought a mini digital scale today, cost me £14 from Maplins, so I can get the tracking force just right

I've gone and bought some oil from Halfords, so once I have the motor fitted correctly, I can then oil the bearing correctly (I do have the bearing, I already checked)
I will make sure the pulley is clean and dry and doesn't spin (Iso alcohol and some superglue) then if the deck is still running slow I will go nuts
The Rega upgrade kit is expensive at around £130, but might be the next step, not sure how much of an upgrade it would be though!

[Barry]

To the 'hi-fi Daves',

Thanks for your advice and comments. I don't disbelieve what you say and do recognise that the Rega arm has been phenomenally successful as seller, no doubt by being a very good sounding tonearm available at a reasonable price. I also believe it is as 'universal' as most arms go, and with the use of 'extender nuts' will allow a wide range of cartridges to be fitted.

A possible source of confusion over who said what, is that these snippets of conversation are fourth hand, so subject to 'Chinese whispers'. If at any time the use of extender nuts had been mentioned by either Rega themselves or by the Rega dealer, I'm sure it would have been noted.

All this is now history. The owner of the Rega Planar 3 deck and arm has now been advised by the Rega dealer to use a Goldring 3200 (?) cartridge. This is why the unused Ortofon 2M Blue is up for sale here on the forum.

I have passed on all of your comments to the owner, but it would seem he is beyond wanting to use the Ortofon and is now going with the Goldring.

Again many thanks for your advice.

(Rega)rds

[DSJR]

I dunno, some dealers really need to go on proper training courses, don't they???????

Dave and I were dragged up on the hierarchy vibe, where it's pointless to spend more on the cartridge than the deck. I know the RB300 will physically take the vast majority of cartridges available (excepting SPU's and others of that ilk), but beyond a certain amount, the Rega 3 platform, bless it, will be the bottleneck.

Anyway, I do hope that all's well that ends well here. I know this forum is Techie-mad, but I still rate what Rega's can do and spares are very readily available. As for "Planar 3 "upgrades,"" please don't bother, just get a different turntable - there's loads around used, under a grand.....

[Macca]

Anyway, I do hope that all's well that ends well here. I know this forum is Techie-mad, but I still rate what Rega's can do and spares are very readily available. As for "Planar 3 "upgrades,"" please don't bother, just get a different turntable - there's loads around used, under a grand.....

Very true - I posted a while back about getting a Rega 3 with RB300 for a mate - I advised him to get an SL1200 but he insisted it had to be the Rega - well it does not have quite the mezmerising metronomic quality in the bass that is the SL1200's party piece but it certainly has no speed issues and is tight as a drum. He is more than happy with his choice.