It's great to be 'famous'!!

[Marco]

Here's something that just occured to me & another point that Marc missed by way more than a country mile

I think Marco kind of alluded to it, but maybe even he didn't hit the nail on the head quite as squarely as he'd have liked

This bloke appears to want something straight out of a box to be the be all & end all of the situation. I get the impression that if he didn't have to set the deck up in any way or even fit a cartridge he'd be a happy bunny.

Well there are people out there that don't like moving into a Barratt show home, they like to maybe renovate an older property to create something that is exactly what they are looking for, rather than simply keeping up with the Jones's.

You're spot on with what you've written. I alluded earlier to the 'uniqueness' of owing a bespoke T/T, and your observations have encapsulated that nicely

Barratt show home? Never!!

Marco.

[vouk]

Do I detect evidence of reverse discrimination here?

Don't know gentlemen, but I hardly see how most "plug and play" "ready made for you" offerings out there would necessarily fall in the "same cauldron" or "Barratt house" category.
In my recent search for a t/t I went out and auditioned some of the usual culprits from rather "mainstream" manufacturers: Michell, Notts Analogue, Kuzma, Amazon, Clearaudio, Linn and Vyger. In my price category, all of the above offer fit and forget - just add water (err... cartridge) products that basically share the same philosophy: belt driven, DC motors in separate housing, largish platters, and very specific or specified upgrade paths (with minimal personal involvement). Yet they all offer VERY different design approaches and principles, different manufacturing materials, different visuals and aesthetics and, most importantly, very different sonic presentations. I'm sure the same would apply with other t/t's which I, unfortunately, never got the chance to listen to. There are some very distinct flavours out there, and I guess it's up to each and everyone of us to figure out which to go for.
As for pride of ownership, I guess that comes in many different guises. There are thousands of Michell and LP12 owners out there that are very proud of their t/t's (as they should be) by the mere and simple fact that they (like the Technics) are legends in their own right. Regardless of what others think of their sonic presentation.
That being said, I stand in absolute awe towards DIY'ers and tweakers for the sheer effort, blood, sweat and tears they put into their equipment. In my book, that's worthy of respect.

[RobbieGong]

Do I detect evidence of reverse discrimination here?

Don't know gentlemen, but I hardly see how most "plug and play" "ready made for you" offerings out there would necessarily fall in the "same cauldron" or "Barratt house" category.
In my recent search for a t/t I went out and auditioned some of the usual culprits from rather "mainstream" manufacturers: Michell, Notts Analogue, Kuzma, Amazon, Clearaudio, Linn and Vyger. In my price category, all of the above offer fit and forget - just add water (err... cartridge) products that basically share the same philosophy: belt driven, DC motors in separate housing, largish platters, and very specific or specified upgrade paths (with minimal personal involvement). Yet they all offer VERY different design approaches and principles, different manufacturing materials, different visuals and aesthetics and, most importantly, very different sonic presentations. I'm sure the same would apply with other t/t's which I, unfortunately, never got the chance to listen to. There are some very distinct flavours out there, and I guess it's up to each and everyone of us to figure out which to go for.
As for pride of ownership, I guess that comes in many different guises. There are thousands of Michell and LP12 owners out there that are very proud of their t/t's (as they should be) by the mere and simple fact that they (like the Technics) are legends in their own right. Regardless of what others think of their sonic presentation.
That being said, I stand in absolute awe towards DIY'ers and tweakers for the sheer effort, blood, sweat and tears they put into their equipment. In my book, that's worthy of respect.

And I'm in awe of the money some of them have to spend on it cause I wish I had it to spend on my Techie too

[AlexM]

I wonder whether a true top-end TT or a DIY hot-rodded SL1200 (or the like) would retain more value should you wish to move it on.

To borrow the car analogy, I suspect that a Porsche will always be valued by the market as a Porsche (i.e. an item with known provenance and history), wheras your Hyundai with a rocket engine will probably be worth less than a standard Hyndai unless you revert it to standard, and sell the parts to another Hyundai owner with a death-wish!.

Of course, this isn't to traduce the pleasure of modifying an item and customising it. I do feel that we should not be dogmatic and so defensive when others challenge this approach. Basically, what works for you is right, and there is no absolute 'right approach' to align others to.

Cheers,
Alex

[Marco]

Hi Alex,

Absolutely (I share your sentiments), and I also agree this:

To borrow the car analogy, I suspect that a Porsche will always be valued by the market as a Porsche (i.e. an item with known provenance and history), wheras your Hyundai with a rocket engine will probably be worth less...

However, on AoS we will always champion what equipment and ancillaries are considered as offering the highest SPPV - and therefore what gives the 'biggest bang for your buck'. Thus, recommendations on how best to achieve that, will always be the central focus. As such, the ownership of high-end 'badges' will never be important here.

Furthermore, as AoS is first and foremost a discerning enthusiast's site, then those needs, before those of the industry, or any commercial concern, will always come first. It's not about market value or 'desirability'; it's about raw SPPV, pure and simple.

Therefore, purely on those terms, one cannot argue against the validity of a judiciously modified Technics, when compared with today's high-end 'off the shelf' direct-drive turntables, as was evidenced by my earlier calculations

Marco.

[vouk]

I wonder whether a true top-end TT or a DIY hot-rodded SL1200 (or the like) would retain more value should you wish to move it on.

To borrow the car analogy, I suspect that a Porsche will always be valued by the market as a Porsche (i.e. an item with known provenance and history), wheras your Hyundai with a rocket engine will probably be worth less than a standard Hyndai unless you revert it to standard, and sell the parts to another Hyundai owner with a death-wish!.

Of course, this isn't to traduce the pleasure of modifying an item and customising it. I do feel that we should not be dogmatic and so defensive when others challenge this approach. Basically, what works for you is right, and there is no absolute 'right approach' to align others to.

Cheers,
Alex

Hi Alex,
Definitely agree with your last statement - not necessarily with the value analogy. Technics decks have a loyal almost cult like following and their owners or potential owners seem to be very aware of the costs/benefits of each individual upgrade or modification. If, for example, Marco decided to sell his deck, anyone in the market for a Technics would probably recognize its real material value and the quality of the individual components, and thus price it accordingly. Investment wise it might even represent better value than some of the other "top-end" decks (dd or not) whose prices seem to drop the minute they walk out of the showroom.

[DaveK]

I wonder whether a true top-end TT or a DIY hot-rodded SL1200 (or the like) would retain more value should you wish to move it on.

To borrow the car analogy, I suspect that a Porsche will always be valued by the market as a Porsche (i.e. an item with known provenance and history), wheras your Hyundai with a rocket engine will probably be worth less than a standard Hyndai unless you revert it to standard, and sell the parts to another Hyundai owner with a death-wish!.

Of course, this isn't to traduce the pleasure of modifying an item and customising it. I do feel that we should not be dogmatic and so defensive when others challenge this approach. Basically, what works for you is right, and there is no absolute 'right approach' to align others to.

Cheers,
Alex

As Yogi said, "I'm with you, BooBoo, 100%", particularly the last paragraph - irrespective of what others may post, there is no definitive single path to audio Nirvana, with the Techie or any other single piece or combination of kit. Preaching the Gospel is fine in my book but attempting to become a missionary aiming to convert the poor unfortunates who do not currently believe is a step too far in my book.
Dave.

[Marco]

Hi Dave,

Preaching the Gospel is fine in my book but attempting to become a missionary aiming to convert the poor unfortunates who do not currently believe is a step too far in my book.

I agree, and I don't see any evidence of that here. It's simply about ensuring that there is as much factual information available as possible, in order for people to make an informed decision on whether modifying the Technics is the right path for them to take or not.

In that respect, it's always helpful being exposed to both sides of the argument

Marco.

[jazzpiano]

Hello,
If he wants to post some financial caveats regarding getting into SL 1200's, fine, folks should know this - But, I don't see the need to be so hissy about Marco? To me, it's really not an audio point - Marco gets to choose what he likes, interact to the degree he wants, he knows how much time/energy/$'s he's investing and how much satisfaction he derives. 'Coulda been a nice, objective article. As it is I don't see the point... And as far as 2 schools - DIY and out-of-the-box, not true, some of us enjoy dabbling but only to a degree. There are all kinds and shades in-between and that's OK.

pale, stout, nut brown, lager - whatever you want
Barry

[Marco]

Hi Barry,

If he wants to post some financial caveats regarding getting into SL 1200's, fine, folks should know this - But, I don't see the need to be so hissy about Marco?

I wasn't being "hissy"; merely challenging his observations, both with facts, and my alternative opinion, based on genuine and practical listening experience.

For a true definition of "hissy", see Marc's outbursts, from the original discussion, shown here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9681

Marco.