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Thread: Could this be a 'giant-killing' tonearm cable?

  1. #161
    MartinT Guest

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    I could offer the small but valid point that cartridges are way easier to mount and align in a headshell compared with a fixed arm design.

  2. #162
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,996
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    But it's unnecessary, as I've already done so:

    Quite simply, the most important and significant difference there is between two similarly priced and well-engineered tonearms, one with a fixed headshell, and the other detachable, is that cartridges are a damned sight easier to fit on the latter!!


    Like I've said, I've never heard the claimed sonic degradation of using tonearms with detachable headshells (if I had, there's NO WAY I'd use one), providing that the tonearm's overall construction and engineering quality is in the highest rank, as is the case with my Ortofon, a Fidelity Research, or Martin's superb Dynavector - and indeed all the arms that Dave mentioned.

    One only has to carry out some relevant comparisons to discover that fact!

    Also, isn't there a theory that the detachable shell decouples the cartridge from the arm's main resonance modes (or something along those lines?)

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & regulator mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat with Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight. Isonoe feet & boots. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm with Denon DL-103GL in a Denon PCL-300 headshell, fitted with Funk Firm Houdini and Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp and Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp, fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.

  3. #163
    Join Date: Mar 2010

    Location: Sheffield

    Posts: 2,899
    I'm Simon.

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    I've never heard that 'theory', it sounds more like idle supposition. The last thing you want in any tonearm is decoupling, because that just means some kind of 'floppy' and that means not under control. A bit of damping is good, but I'd always prefer things to be notionally rigid.
    Kuzma Stabi/S 12", (LP12-bastard) DC motor and optical tacho psu, Benz LP, Paradise (phonostage). Imac m1, gustard A18dac, Bruno Putzeys balanced pre, neurochrome 486 dual mono amps, Yamaha NS1000m with raal ribbons

  4. #164
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,996
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Cool, Simon. No worries...I've no idea whether there's anything or not in such a theory.

    All I know is that there's no way I'd trade the huge convenience of mounting cartridges in high-quality detachable headshell arms (and being able to swap cartridges quickly for something else), for using arms with fixed headshells, in order to gain a claimed increase in sonic performance, which I've never heard

    As a matter of interest, has anyone ever compared two SME 3009s, with the same cartridge (in an otherwise identical T/T and system) - one being the older version with a detachable headshell, and the other, the later 'improved' version, with a fixed headshell? And if you have, did you notice much difference?

    That would be the only true way of settling the argument, as no other tonearm that I know of is available with or without a detachable headshell, and so when one normally carries out such a comparison, too many other variables are in the equation, in order to test properly for the claimed sonic degradation.

    I sometimes wonder if those who dismiss tonearms with detachable headshells do so because the idea doesn't fit with their notion of 'tonearm perfection' or 'engineering logic', rather than having the practical experience of comparing one type of arm against the other (in the absence of all other variables), and thus arriving at a more meaningful conclusion?

    In my experience, lateral thinking often defies 'obvious logic'...

    Also, there was a lot of brainwashing done by the press, in the UK audio scene, in the 70s and 80s, an example of which is the now well-documented unfair bias against (all) direct-drive turntables. 'S-shaped' tonearms, with detachable headshells, being automatically inferior to 'straight armtube' fixed-headshell types, also came into that catergory, and I think that those who were influenced by, and in turn bought that bullshit, still can't shake off that bias...

    Following fashion and conforming to the 'accepted norm' often has much to answer for in audio, whereas having the courage of your convictions and the gumption to think for yourself, challenging 'obvious choices', and going a different route from the sheep, more often than not pays dividends!

    Marco (forever an audio non-conformist).
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & regulator mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat with Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight. Isonoe feet & boots. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm with Denon DL-103GL in a Denon PCL-300 headshell, fitted with Funk Firm Houdini and Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp and Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp, fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.

  5. #165
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Near Saffron Walden, Essex

    Posts: 7,367
    I'm Dave.

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    Having used many of each design over the years, I don't think there is any advantage for either fixed or detachable, except for cartridge mounting. It's just a different philosophy like transistor v valve or belt v idler etc. Whatever floats yer boat.

  6. #166
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,996
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    I totally agree, Dave. Have you ever done the comparison with an SME 3009, as outlined above?

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & regulator mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat with Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight. Isonoe feet & boots. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm with Denon DL-103GL in a Denon PCL-300 headshell, fitted with Funk Firm Houdini and Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp and Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp, fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.

  7. #167
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,794
    I'm Andrew.

    Default

    Just my $0.02 worth. What happens if you cant be arsed with shifting from one head shell to the other, just like me! I like fixed head shells for the simple reason that half of the arsing around aligning a cartridge is removed for you. Personally I've not heard that much difference, sonically, between fixed or detatchable head shells. I think this is yet another variable where far too much time is spent "worrying" and not enough time spent enjoying the music.
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE / MONO
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker





  8. #168
    synsei Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by REXTON View Post
    I think this is yet another variable where far too much time is spent "worrying" and not enough time spent enjoying the music.
    Here, here...

  9. #169
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,996
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Hi Andrew,

    Just my $0.02 worth. What happens if you cant be arsed with shifting from one head shell to the other, just like me!
    There's no need to do that if you only have one cartridge. Some us, though, have half a dozen or more, all set-up to go in separate headshells, so having a tonearm with a detachable headshell makes it much easier to swap between them!

    Quite often it's nice hearing an alternative 'take' on your favourite music, offered by a cartridge with a rather different sonic presentation from your usual choice, especially when you can access that pleasure in a matter of minutes (sometimes seconds)

    I like fixed head shells for the simple reason that half of the arsing around aligning a cartridge is removed for you.
    Like I said, it's a non-issue if you just have one cartridge. Once said cartridge is successfully installed in position, it's 'fit and forget', no matter whether your tonearm has a fixed headshell or not.

    However, fitting the cartridge in the first place is a damn sight easier when you can remove the headshell from the arm!

    Personally I've not heard that much difference, sonically, between fixed or detatchable head shells. I think this is yet another variable where far too much time is spent "worrying" and not enough time spent enjoying the music.
    Indeed. Out with of discussing the matter here, I don't worry about such things in the slightest!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & regulator mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat with Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight. Isonoe feet & boots. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm with Denon DL-103GL in a Denon PCL-300 headshell, fitted with Funk Firm Houdini and Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp and Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp, fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.

  10. #170
    Join Date: Mar 2010

    Location: Sheffield

    Posts: 2,899
    I'm Simon.

    Default

    I have to agree, I've owned SME's with fixed and detachable headshells and they sounded no different. But as stated I had no need for it to detach so the choice on which to keep was simple.
    Kuzma Stabi/S 12", (LP12-bastard) DC motor and optical tacho psu, Benz LP, Paradise (phonostage). Imac m1, gustard A18dac, Bruno Putzeys balanced pre, neurochrome 486 dual mono amps, Yamaha NS1000m with raal ribbons

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