Confronting your own realities...

[gary]

Some people want to create perfection some people just want to listen to perfection

[Steve Toy]

I see the topic has drifted onto the Gary Irwin syndrome (not you Gary above.) WAF factor generally features very high on the list of priorities in the all-fur-coat-no-knickers households.

I'm fortunate in that my hi-fi/music hobby was already a part of me when I met my wife. Thus, me and hi-fi came as part of a combined package. Moreover, I'm a few years older than her and I guess I've made it clear I am rather set in my ways and not for changing. I'm fortunate again in that she accepts me for who I am.

She did get a bit upset when I bought the rather imposing Heco Celan 500 speakers in the house last summer but was less bothered a month later when they were replaced by the even bigger 700s . She likes her music to have a certain palpable quality (she attends concerts on occasions) and I've explained to her that the laws of physics cannot be defeated.

I agree with Marco that those seeking "a quiet life" by rolling over and being ultra-accommodating are utter fools making rods for their own backs.

Relationships are being equal partners and making compromises not giving in all the time to keep her happy.

plus we both believe that relationships are either parasitic or symbiotic

I believe this too.

[Marco]

I agree with Marco that those seeking "a quiet life" by rolling over and being ultra-accommodating are utter fools making rods for their own backs.

It's a total nonsense, Steve - and that applies to both men and women in a relationship. Being a 'soft touch' gets you nowhere in life, as people will simply take advantage and walk all over you. You have to be strong-willed and confident in a relationship just as much as you are accommodating and willing to compromise. It's a matter of striking a healthy balance. This 'she who must be obeyed' nonsense, which harks back to the dark ages, should be completely erased from the male psyche.

My theory is that too many men getting married or involved in a relationship with women are simply looking for a replacement for their mothers, rather than an equal partner, so therefore become subservient to their wifes or partners in such a way as they would have done to their mothers as children. I think this is deeply sad and more than a little weird.

I've seen it happen all too often: married men, for example, being given 'pocket money' by their wifes, like kids, to spend (often from their own wages!!) while she takes complete control of the household finances, and so also makes all the financial decisions. Once this is allowed to happen it therefore follows that she is also allowed to make all the other major decisions, too! Another example of this bizarre, rather freakish, 'mother/child' relationship in marriages or partnerships is where women buy men all their clothes. I know of married men who are effectively 'dressed' by their wifes - what's all that about?

The excuse made is always that men don't have a clue in that respect and so it's better that women with their 'superior fashion sense' are allowed to exert their control here too - talk about lazy thinking! The question that begs to be asked is why they don't have a clue in the first place? What they need to do is get off their lazy backsides, think for themselves, and start shopping for clothes and developing a sense of fashion of their own like normal people have done since leaving childhood, otherwise this sort of lazy and submissive thinking only serves to further reinforce the risible and pathetic 'mothering' of men by women which causes the very problems we're discussing here.

The weak-willed and spineless slugs of the world, posing as men, should take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror, grow some 'cohonas', and start taking control of their lives, or forever be breast-fed like babies and treated as such, too... One only has to think of the hilarious sketch in Little Britain where the 'husband' wants some "bitty" - funny it may be, but also how true!

Marco.

P.S Neil, nice tale - love it!

[shuggz]

or forever be breast-fed like babies and treated as such, too...

Hang on guys some blokes actually want this and some know no other way.
Bare in mind that if they've been conditioned to be this way from an early age, then they won't have the mental capacity or the stones to change.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that because we're lucky enough to be in understanding relationships that this can be easily found, it's a jungle out there and sometimes it's better the devil you know than the one you don't.

At the end of the days I tell guys who moan about the missus to either leave, work it out by talking to her or just shut the f##k up and take their life in their hands, if you know what I mean.

[Marco]

Hang on guys some blokes actually want this and some know no other way.

Shuggz, well all I can say is that it's a sad indicament of our society and there's something deeply disturbing and fundamentally wrong with how people are being raised by their parents if that's the case

just shut the f##k up and take their life in their hands, if you know what I mean.

Indeed - and frankly I'd like to see more of it happening, starting with men not being such wimps when it comes to what hi-fi is bought and where it's placed in the living room of their own home!!

Marco.

[Mr. C]

The weak-willed and spineless slugs of the world, posing as men, should take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror, grow some 'cohonas', and start taking control of their lives, or forever be breast-fed like babies and treated as such, too... One only has to think of the hilarious sketch in Little Britain where the 'husband' wants some "bitty" - funny it may be, but also how true!

Marco,

After spending far too much time studying Hifi show attendees (the words given a pass-out and she's thinks I am at kids football are heard too many times :-( ) and *others* I have to say, there is a LOT of truth in your above statement.
Picture the scene.

<Guy wants sex <> woman looking for guy <> Woman gives guy want he wants (after a small interlude involving time, food and a not insubstantial amount of currency)<> Guy feel Whoa hey! <>small courtship in sues<> Marriage flows <>as soon as ring is on finger<> life over<> woman turns into control freakette<> Guy sinks into subservient role for eternity >

Ok, that does not hold true for around 30% of the hitched population where it is an equal partnership and both enjoy each other's hobbies and life.
Either that or in the main hifi attracts these sorts of people, some times it scares me when I see them.
Just to put a counter point across, when we attended the Paris Hifi show last year, it was filled with everything that is *bad* about hifi in general, any outsiders looking in would have cringed, 55+ yo men (who are still under going a mid life crisis after 15 years) with pony tails and too tight fitting jeans, long coats, 'bobbing away' to trad jazz and some other weird sounds that redefined ' musical masturbation'
Geek's collecting as many leaflets and bags as they could carry, aloof owners of high end equipment slating various rooms, women that did attend looking forlorn, harassed and generally thoroughly pissed off.
Exhibitors looking jaded (not all) the atmosphere was not good (now this could have been any show in the UK as well to be fair)
If hifi wishes to truly survive and prosper, then it needs to take a good long look at its self in the mirror, and address EVERY issue before it goes forward, it need to be a TEAM effort from the consumers right up to the manufacturers.
Sorry about the rant, just need a break for coding some new pages for the website.

[Marco]

Tony,

Picture the scene.

<Guy wants sex <> woman looking for guy <> Woman gives guy want he wants (after a small interlude involving time, food and a not insubstantial amount of currency)<> Guy feel Whoa hey! <>small courtship in sues<> Marriage flows <>as soon as ring is on finger<> life over<> woman turns into control freakette<> Guy sinks into subservient role for eternity >

Haha, indeed! Fine, if that's what you want and you're happy about it, but the interesting observation on audio forums, for example, is that the 'WAF worriers', for want of a better expression, are always moaning about the situation, or making reference to it as an unfortunate but accpeted 'given', and somehow 'part and parcel' of married life. Is it f*ck!

'Happy' it would seem they are not, so they should stop moaning about it and accepting it and do something about it!!

Ok, that does not hold true for around 30% of the hitched population where it is an equal partnership and both enjoy each other's hobbies and life.

I consider that as normal, which I why I struggle to understand the, erm, 'alternatives'...

Either that or in the main hifi attracts these sorts of people, some times it scares me when I see them.Just to put a counter point across, when we attended the Paris Hifi show last year, it was filled with everything that is *bad* about hifi in general, any outsiders looking in would have cringed, 55+ yo men (who are still under going a mid life crisis after 15 years) with pony tails and too tight fitting jeans, long coats, 'bobbing away' to trad jazz and some other weird sounds that redefined ' musical masturbation'

LOL - me too, it's so pathetic and cringe-worthy. I'm thinking: "Get a bloody hair cut for God's sake and wear some sensible trousers, then perhaps you might look half your age instead of some sad old duffer who thinks he's an aging 'rocker'!"

This is a bit of a 'Room 101' thing for me, so I'll go into it in a bit more detail...

Don't get me wrong, the odd person at that age might be able to carry off a pony tail successfully, and appear quite 'individual' in the process, but the ones who don't (and they need only take a good look in the mirror regularly), who insist on clinging onto their youth in such a rather sad way, only serve to make themselves look ridiculous.

It's all very well thinking that the 'cool' look you created 30 or 40 years ago is part of your identity, or whatever, but unfortunately what you could carry off then with some panache now usually has quite the opposite effect, because although you may be the same person inside, what's on the outside has moved on quite dramatically: it's called the ageing process. Realistically, you have to evolve with it or more often then not look, erm, a bit of a tool. I mean, would you still wear the teenage-style clothes you once did when you were fourteen now when you are forty? - No, because you would look bloody stupid, wouldn't you, so why should the same be any different with your hair? What would a 50-year old woman look like with pigtails?? The fact is, if you don't want to look like a muppet you have to accept and embrace your body ageing and move with it, not against it.

It's the same with women in their 50s, or even older, wearing mini skirts and low-cut tops - what's all that about? Or guys going bald on top and in denial who still insist on growing their hair long at the back and sides (or the Brylcream 'sweep-over look'), as if desperately trying to convince themselves that they've still got some semblence of hair left on their bonce, and in the process all they're really doing is showcasing their baldy pates even further, creating that 'Friars Tuck' monk-look which is of course so iconic (not)

Again I feel like saying: "Get yer hair cut, 'granddad' - keep it short all over or shave it all off completely and it'll knock about 10 years off you!"

And what is it with guys who have huge beer guts wearing trousers about three sizes too small for them, trying to fit into whatever waist size they took 5 or 10 years ago, by dropping the waistband of their trousers down to their hips, thus neatly avoiding their belly, and strapping it all in with a belt? All they're doing is accentuating their beer gut ten times more and looking like a trussed-up turkey - buy trousers that fit in the first bloody place!!

Sheer muppetry of the highest order... {RANT OVER}

Geek's collecting as many leaflets and bags as they could carry, aloof owners of high end equipment slating various rooms, women that did attend looking forlorn, harassed and generally thoroughly pissed off.
Exhibitors looking jaded (not all) the atmosphere was not good (now this could have been any show in the UK as well to be fair)

I know, and they always seem to have high-pitched, whining, voices too, don't they? - Like as if they're talking through their nose!

If hifi wishes to truly survive and prosper, then it needs to take a good long look at its self in the mirror, and address EVERY issue before it goes forward, it need to be a TEAM effort from the consumers right up to the manufacturers.

Indeed. Are you going to the Chester Group forum members' systems show on 1st March? It'll be interesting to see what that turns out to be like...

Sorry about the rant, just need a break for coding some new pages for the website.

No worries - rants are always appreciated and welcome here

Marco.

[Spectral Morn]

Hi guys

I know, and they always seem to have high-pitched, whining, voices too, don't they? - Like as if they're talking through their nose!

Maybe thats an English thing.... never come across that one....


Regards D S D L----Neil

[Covenant]

My wife likes spending on clothes, bags and shoes, I like spending on hi-fi. I suppose we look at what each other has purchased but only to be polite.
Am I more keen on the boxes than the music? Probably but I still love music and how good quality sound can be achieved for moderate amounts of money.
Badge snob? Only in the sense that I like having unusual stuff that friends havent heard of. Dont care if it only cost 50p.
I suppose I spend some of my listening time analysing the quality in order to decide on the next improvement rather than enjoying music for music sake.
I dont suppose I am going to change at the ripe old age of 54.
Am I willing to be told I have gone in the wrong direction and need to re-evaluate? Yep, it might mean buying more kit!

[Peter Stockwell]

Marco,

when we attended the Paris Hifi show last year, it was filled with everything that is *bad* about hifi in general, any outsiders looking in would have cringed, 55+ yo men (who are still under going a mid life crisis after 15 years) with pony tails and too tight fitting jeans, long coats, 'bobbing away' to trad jazz and some other weird sounds that redefined ' musical masturbation'

France, in general, is much more video orientated than other market and I think it's a sad state of affaires that there are mostly sad old gits likeme in interested in hifi.

You may not like it but jazz is, relatively, popular here. Paris even has its own jazz station (89.9fm TSF www.tsfjazz.com ).

Ok, me ? I pretend I'm in it for the music, I'm going to a show (jazz ) tonight. But I like fiddling with the kit, if I was only in it for the music I would have stopped at the Nait5. Better kit gets you access to more music, that is some music is too complicated for lesser kit and it just sounds like noise. As to what is better or not so better kit, that's in the ear of the listener.

Recently I've been on a bender with the kit, it all started with the SL1210!

I sometimes go visit other audiofools, and have rare visits to my gaff, but I've either got buy on the buzz, as I did with my 401 back in the '90s and also with SL1210 recently, or I'll demo some kit with dealers. I like the way that Naim presents music, it fits with my priorities, so getting more of the same is relatively no risk, even if it does get too expensive.

I wouldn't say I was a badge snob, but I would certainly try other kit based on it's reputation. Things that come to mind are, Wadia CD players, Lavardin amps, Harbeth speakers, and I'm sure there are others.

cheers