SME V and Technics EPA-100

[Marco]

Hi Blake,

I was about to spring for one for my Gyrodec until I discovered it will only take a 9" arm and am now seriously considering the 750D. Does anyone know anything about the bearings on the 750D. Are they upgraded over the 250S and 250 ST?

As far as I know the bearings are the same. I doubt that Jelco would supply different types for two arms in roughly the same price bracket. Also, Jelco make their own bearings, which is somewhat of a rarity amongst tonearm manufacturers, so you can rest assured that the bearings in either the 250 or the 750 will be of the highest quality.

I'm assuming they would be based on the price difference. Perhaps someone can shed some light on what the actual differences are with respect to the 250S and the 750D beyond the fluid damping capability of the 750?

I doubt that the price difference is anything to do with the bearings - it is to do with the fit and finish of both arms (the 750 being just that bit better finished overall) and the fact that S-shaped detachable headshell arms are more expensive to manufacture. 'Straight' one-piece tonearms, such as the 250, are easier to manufacture off the production run, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're inferior.

The 250 and 750 are both superb quality tonearms at quite frankly bargain prices due to the refinement of Jelco's production techniques and lower overhead costs in Japan compared to here in the UK. I would chose between them mainly as far what type of cartridge is going to be used. If it's something such as a DL-103 which needs plenty of mass, particularly at the headshell end, then I'd go for the 750 (and if you prefer S-shaped arms), otherwise for most other cartridges either the 250 or the 750 would do.

Also, any thoughts from anyone on using a heavier aftermarket headshell than the stock Jelco and if the standard counterweight that comes with the 750 would be capable of balancing out a heavy cartridge (an 11 gram 103R in a wood body) with a heavier headshell?

The stock headshell on the 750 is of good quality, being very similar to the Sumiko which is popular at the moment. However it's not quite heavy enough for a DL-103, so if you're planning on using one of those I would invest in a super high-mass headshell such as the Audio-Technica LH-18, which is available from Dave at Sound Hi-fi. There's no problem either with the stock c/w balancing out heavier headshells and cartridges. It can do so with my 20g Fidelity research headshell and a DL-103SA, so it would have no problem doing so with a DL-103R in an 11g headshell.

However, I would stress that 11g is not really enough headshell mass for a 103 - you need the minimum of 18, or preferably 20g for the cartridge to 'sing'.

Marco.

[pure sound]

Doug Dunlop used to describe the linn as tizzy bom bom,bless him.

Guy' what do you think was the best arm match for the voyd, John still has the Helius orion with the IO ,i think this was a better combo than my SME310/Music maker.

The Mk 1 version of the Orion was a very good arm particularly with the Io. A friend of mine still uses that combination & it sounds excellent.

The Cyalene ( a good one anyway) was also a decent match. Trouble was they weren't always as free moving as would be desirable. Providing the wiring issues were addressed I liked the SME's on the Voyd and used my V for a long time on it. The FR64 also worked well. The deck does let you hear the particular qualities of arm & cartridge quite clearly.

With reference to Neil's point about the Valdi it was really made for lighter weight 9" arms such as the RB300 and Helius Scorpio/Aureus or indeed the Alphasons. I'm not sure the suspension would have been quite so happy trying to support the bulk of an SME or FR.

[blake]

Hi Blake,



As far as I know the bearings are the same. I doubt that Jelco would supply different types for two arms in roughly the same price bracket. Also, Jelco make their own bearings, which is somewhat of a rarity amongst tonearm manufacturers, so you can rest assured that the bearings in either the 250 or the 750 will be of the highest quality.



I doubt that the price difference is anything to do with the bearings - it is to do with the fit and finish of both arms (the 750 being just that bit better finished overall) and the fact that S-shaped detachable headshell arms are more expensive to manufacture. 'Straight' one-piece tonearms, such as the 250, are easier to manufacture off the production run, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're inferior.

The 250 and 750 are both superb quality tonearms at quite frankly bargain prices due to the refinement of Jelco's production techniques and lower overhead costs in Japan compared to here in the UK. I would chose between them mainly as far what type of cartridge is going to be used. If it's something such as a DL-103 which needs plenty of mass, particularly at the headshell end, then I'd go for the 750 (and if you prefer S-shaped arms), otherwise for most other cartridges either the 250 or the 750 would do.



The stock headshell on the 750 is of good quality, being very similar to the Sumiko which is popular at the moment. However it's not quite heavy enough for a DL-103, so if you're planning on using one of those I would invest in a super high-mass headshell such as the Audio-Technica LH-18, which is available from Dave at Sound Hi-fi. There's no problem either with the stock c/w balancing out heavier headshells and cartridges. It can do so with my 20g Fidelity research headshell and a DL-103SA, so it would have no problem doing so with a DL-103R in an 11g headshell.

However, I would stress that 11g is not really enough headshell mass for a 103 - you need the minimum of 18, or preferably 20g for the cartridge to 'sing'.

Marco.

Thanks for the info Marco. Just to clarify, it is my 103R (in the wood body) that weighs 11 grams and I wanted to know if I could go with a heavier headshell (am I reading you correctly in that your FR headshell weighs 20g on its own without cartridge installed) and still be able to balance out as the 11g is very close to the max 12g cartridge spec on the Jelco arm (and a few grams heavier than your SA). That being said, the counterweight on the 750D appears to be more substantial (at least from viewing photos online) than that of the 250 and the 250S (go here:
http://gon5.audiogon.com/i/c/f/1187645377.jpg to see a photo) and similar to the counterweight on the 10.5S on the Pure Music website.

There do appear to be pretty big cosmetic (fit and finish) differences between the 250S (which is available for $290 U.S.) and the 750D which also offers fluid damping, which I'm inclined to use with my 103R. But the bearing thing had me confused. The Pure Music site (as well as the Feickert site) make reference to the quality of the bearings (gimbal in the vertical axis and needle roller in the horizontal plane) implying that this might be a better bearing spec than on the less expensive Jelcos. I've made inquiries but really haven't been able to establish whether there is in fact a difference in bearings between the 10.5S and the 750D let alone the 750D and the less expensive 250 and 250S. I'm inclined to agree with you that the bearings are probably the same but the "built to spec" remarks on the Pure Music website got me wondering.

One thing is for sure though and that is that the 750D and the 10.5S on the Pure Music site appear to be the same arm and identical in terms of fit and finish, the only difference being the difference in length.

One final question: do you know how much the stock Jelco headshell on the 750 weighs? Thanks in advance!!!

[Spectral Morn]

With reference to Neil's point about the Valdi it was really made for lighter weight 9" arms such as the RB300 and Helius Scorpio/Aureus or indeed the Alphasons. I'm not sure the suspension would have been quite so happy trying to support the bulk of an SME or FR.

Hi Guy

You may be right, though at the time I never felt this was the case. The Valdi I used was easy enough to level and bounced evenly with the 309 arm on it. I even ordered the arm board from Guy Adams direct at the time ,and he did not indicate it would be an issue. However the simple fact is for whatever reason the Valdi 309 combo did not sing like it had with the Rega rb 300 arm. But if the suspension was over stressed that could indeed be part of the answer. I would love to hear a Voyd ref with any arm on it. That was some TT. Especially if you put an original Torylite stand under it, as I had with my Valdi.

Its a shame that Guy Adams left audio, whats he up to these days ?

Regards D S D L----Neil

[pure sound]

He works for Hewlett Packard now. I still speak & exchange emails with him from time to time.

My first prolonged exposure to a Voyd Ref was using one at the Belfast show one year. Extraordinary thing! It did something with the sound of records that I've never heard from any other TT. Absolutely boundless energy.

[MartinT]

the Helius orion with the IO ,i think this was a better combo than my SME310/Music maker

I used to have a Helius Aureus arm on a Michell Syncro. The turntable was extremely nice and well made for a bargain price, but unfortunately the Helius was a piece of crap. I could never get the stiction completely out of the bearings no matter how hard I tried and the fit and finish were very poor.

[chris@panteg]

Well its funny you should say that' my m8 john is having some problems with his Orion it desperately needs a service i think, i agree that fit and finish are not in the same league as the SME .

[Spectral Morn]

He works for Hewlett Packard now. I still speak & exchange emails with him from time to time.

My first prolonged exposure to a Voyd Ref was using one at the Belfast show one year. Extraordinary thing! It did something with the sound of records that I've never heard from any other TT. Absolutely boundless energy.

Hi guy

I was working at that show and I well remember the sort of sound that you guys were getting. PQ was particularly happy generating bass booms in the middle of the hall in the hotel. I have never felt, heard anything like it before. Some of your fellow exhibitors complained. I went to investigate. As I walked down the corridor this invisible force like a wave hit me in the stomach, and then rolled across into the rooms opposite. Not hi-fi more like a Sonic attack, but in the room wonderful sound and PQ enjoying himself. Those were the days.

During following shows he got a larger room, where he could do his thing and not annoy anyone. He did a musical evening once , fabulous showman and sound.

I am glad that Guy Adams is well. Its a pity Voyd died (I don't consider Peters decks to be Voyd's, despite similar design ideas. No nice plinths)

regards D S D L--- Neil

[pure sound]

Well its funny you should say that' my m8 john is having some problems with his Orion it desperately needs a service i think, i agree that fit and finish are not in the same league as the SME .

Helius seem to be making arms again. He might be able to service it although if it were me I'd send it to J7 at Audio Origami. It'll come back better than when it was new. (not joking)

http://www.heliusdesigns.co.uk/

[chris@panteg]

Thanks for that Guy'

i think John will be keen to do that , i will also tell him about your Phono amp the p10' he is a big fan of the p2 which i believe you designed i never heard one myself alas but he tells me its one of the finest he has ever heard.