Technics 1210 internal regulation mods

[NRG]

Completely agree, Neal!

And the trouble is, how do you know for sure beyond any doubt that a correctly set-up/fettled one today is as good as it would have been when brand new, when it originally left the Panasonic factory....?

There's no way of ever *really* knowing that, short of taking a journey in a time machine.

Marco.

True...but the setup and performance information is very well detailed in the service manual so you can certainly compare the phase timing, wave forms and voltages to whats required and conclude if the deck is in spec. or not. I suspect the majority are not.

[Marco]

Same here. But we also know that there are other things which age (and extensive use/abuse in studios) over many years affects - and not all of it can be measured....

Mike hits the nail on the head, here:

The basic unknown in the SP10 and a very very important one, is the condition of the bearing.

I have had a number of people from around the globe ask if I can produce a bearing for the SP10 (and the other models) of the same High Precision quality as the one I offer for the SL1200 series.
Unfortunately this is not a very practical proposition due to the design of the system.

So in reality anyone contemplating an SP10, whilst they may have been regarded as a superb TT in their day; must put out up with all of it's shortcomings which normal wear would produce.

Indeed! Wear which simply isn't there on, say, a three and a half year old T/T like mine, with new (as opposed to 40-year old) electronics and one of your superb bearings...

Marco.

[NRG]

The basic unknown in the SP10 and a very very important one, is the condition of the bearing. I have had a number of people from around the globe ask if I can produce a bearing for the SP10 (and the other models) of the same High Precision quality as the one I offer for the SL1200 series.
Unfortunately this is not a very practical proposition due to the design of the system.
So in reality anyone contemplating an SP10, whilst they may have been regarded as a superb TT in their day; must put out up with all of it's shortcomings which normal wear would produce.

And in any TurnTable the only thing that is going to seriously wear over time is the bearing. The tone arm of course will also wear but this can be replaced as many have done.

Further I am pretty sure that the SP10 has a less capable speed and control circuitry than is available in the SL1200 series.

Not sure I agree about the speed control, if its setup correctly its rock solid. There's a plot of mine over on the PFM speed analysis thread and I don't think you'll find it lacking.

The bearing yes I agree with, if its not been correctly maintained it will be worn and the deck worthless, however, I've not heard reports of a maintained one failing....yet (now somebody will post a link )

[Marco]

Hi Mike,

Further I am pretty sure that the SP10 has a less capable speed and control circuitry than is available in the SL1200 series.

Most interesting... Care to expand on that?

Marco.

[Marco]

We do need to avoid exuding a sense of elitism about the whole Technics scene though and just concentrate on letting the turntable do the talking. If people like what they hear then the choice will be obvious to them...

Absolutely, but it's when people haven't heard what they need to hear, in order to hold a valid opinion, appear to have formed firm conclusions on the matter, regardless, which scuppers that laudable notion!

Anyway, Dave, you're more than welcome to come and hear my T/T or Martin's at Scalford. It'll be nice to meet you and buy you a few beers

Marco.

[synsei]

Cheers Marco, likewise I doubt I will have been able to do too much to my 1210 before Scalford however, although a set of VA feet may fall into my lap before then

[Mike_New]

Marco,
You should all know that today is OZ day, the day Mr. Cook lost his way and discovered Australia!! And that the best of our forefathers came from the worst of English jails.

I have just had a look at the circuit diagrams for the SP10 and I must admit I did not realize they were so extensive. It would seem that the control circuitry should certainly be capable of decent control of the motor/platter and it does have more coils on the stator which would potentially enable more smooth rotation.
However I would venture to sugest that the SL1200 series does have a more refined control circuitry than the SP10.

I cannot see from a copy of the manual that I have, exactly what form the bearing takes.
It does look as though a replacement could be possible but I would have to get hold of the actual motor assembly myself.
If there is anyone out there that has an old and useless SP10 or one which does have just a defunct bearing, I would be happy to further investigate the possibility of perhaps producing a replacement bearing for the SP10 if there are enough takers.

However looking at the considerable amount of discreet circuitry on the four or five PCBs would make me aware, as Marco indicated that a lot of the caps would possibly need replacement.
It is not difficult to see that the genesis of the SL1200s lay in the SP10 design.
Excepting that the SL1200s were produced with mass production in mind at a much lower retail cost.

[synsei]

That's very interesting Mike and perhaps there's life in the old girl yet, eh?

I take onboard what has been said in relation to the SP10, in particular that the average age of the SP is going to be greater than that of the SL and consequently the wear issue is going to be greater. What needs to be factored in here however is that the SP10 exhibits battleship build quality and I believe that if it is handled correctly a well modded SP10 could become the next Technics superdeck

[Marco]

I agree, Dave, and have no problem at all with that theory.

However, we await someone turning that theory into a reality - and it *only* becomes such when said SP10 outperforms a modded SL-1210 at the level of the likes of Martin's or mine (i.e. about the best that the beast can get).

Somehow, I think we'll be waiting a while for that to happen.... Bring it on, though!

Yup, an insightful post, Mike, as usual

Marco.

[synsei]

I agree, Dave, and have no problem at all with that theory.

However, we await someone turning that theory into a reality - and it *only* becomes such when said SP10 outperforms a modded SL-1210 at the level of the likes of Martin's or mine (i.e. about the best that the beast can get).

Somehow, I think we'll be waiting a while for that to happen.... Bring it on, though!

Yup, an insightful post, Mike, as usual

Marco.

I wish I had the technical nouse to do so because I think it would be an enjoyable project

Vantage supply several upgrades for the SP10 so they may be a decent springboard to begin the odyssey...