Amplifier advice for new Harbeth Compact 7s

[Elephantears]

I think the question is 'who says so', it's fine to express something if you have first hand knowledge and evidence to back it up, but anything else is just hearsay and not something I think AoS supports? It's certainly not something I would advocate.

As I said, I use Harbeths day in day out. I think you are looking for an argument where there is no need for one here. Anything I say is from first hand experience; I've posted in detail about my experience with various amps on Harbeths on several threads recently, so I don't see the point of your negative comment. If you read back on the thread you'll see that I was defending Harbeths against some of Rob's comments. Enjoy you 5's and thanks for the details about your room.

[Tim]

No argument here Andrew, I just wanted to add a bit of balance from a 'non-trade' private owner perspective

Now I'm off to deal with Rufus Wainwright

[DSJR]

I was given a pair of LS5/9's not long ago. I heard this particular pair in four locations and, quality of sound aside, the tonal balance changed out of all recognition. In an optimum location on high stands away from walls, they sounded stark and lean (AVI ADM lovers would appreciate this balance I think ), at home on the Spendor 12" stands, they sounded thick, ploddy and with a "quack" in the upper mid. Up in the office on the desktop, they were big-n-beefy but so involving to listen to and lastly, in their current storage home, they sounded well balanced and lively, the Harbeth M30's (their drop-in replacement) sounding similar but smoother in the upper mid-crossover region.

My conclusion is really that the room is the final arbiter as long as the manufacturer does his bit to make the speakers as consistent as possible..

[Reid Malenfant]

My conclusion is really that the room is the final arbiter as long as the manufacturer does his bit to make the speakers as consistent as possible..

Absolutely spot on, some manufacturers even design speakers to work well in English rooms The Celestion SL6 springs to mind, designed to roll off below 60Hz but with the port assistance (out the back) it has a reasonably flat response to about 40Hz in room, IE an average English room.

You'll always get positioning problems with absolutely any speakers that can reproduce reasonably flat bass to frequencies below the lowest that the room modes allow. It's frequencies above the lowest room mode that prove problematical though as standing waves can mess things up, below that there can be no standing waves! What just about everyone fails to realise is that below the lowest room mode frequency the bass is clean. I'm fed up of nutters saying that it's inaudible below the lowest room mode, is it f*ck, it relies on pressure at low frequencies. You know, the bass cone pumps in & out & literally effects the atmospheric pressure in the room, not some wavelength that won't fit

Stick your head inside a speaker doing 16Hz at 100W (assuming 86Db/W/1M) or so & tell me that you don't turn the volume down as you'd damage your ears.

Honestly, saying a speaker can't go incredibly deep even in a small room is complete cobblers, it's like saying you couldn't hear 100Hz inside of a speaker with any dimension less than 82.5cm


E2A:- Just thought of the most obvious one of the lot. If speakers can't reproduce deep bass in a room because of it's dimensions then how come you can hear 20Hz with headphones? The ear canal is only so long & nowhere near 10M

[JJack]

So, anyone running a Supernait on C7s? ...

[hifi_dave]

I have and the smaller Nait's on all the Harbeth range. They work well.

[JJack]

I have and the smaller Nait's on all the Harbeth range. They work well.

Any thoughts on a Supernait vs. an XS with a Flatcap XS?

I can't afford the Supernait AND an external power supply, but I can afford the Flatcap XS if I buy the XS integrated.

Appreciate your thoughts.

[Elephantears]

I run a 202/200/dual teddycap JJack; it does work well. I've been exploring all sorts of other options, but the itch I had was as much about room positioning as the amps themselves, and having switched around to a near-field monitor set-up with a wider distance between the speakers the Naims work very nicely. I recently bought some Unison Research amps which are cleaner, more extended, and more dynamic, but they don't gel with my vinyl set-up (I think it's my phono stage), so the Naims are back, at least for now, and I'm glad I didn't sell them because its reminded me how much I enjoy them, in spite of some limitations. I think the 202/200 sounds quite organic with the C7's; its about the right amount of power so it can do large scale orchestral when required. The lower bass and highs are rolled off, and this can lead to undue emphasis, but its actually quite a good compromise in the average domestic situation. A previous post about bass issues in average sized rooms was very pertinent here. (I should also qualify my previous post about 'room issues' and specify that any issues I have had have been specific not only to my room but my sources, and that I have made a lot of progress in sorting them out). There are endless and tedious debates on Supernait vs 202/200 on the forum that shall not be named. Perhaps Dave can add his opinion on which is best suited to C7's?

If you are thinking Naim-ways, do you have any chance of comparing, say, with the Croft range? I think they are potentially the best match I've heard, particularly if you can afford the 25R pre. I also think that if you are thinking of solid state integrated amps such as the Nait XS, I would highly recommend the Sonneteers (Alabaster and Orton). The Alabaster is a screaming bargain and the Orton is a bit special.

[JJack]

I run a 202/200/dual teddycap JJack; it does work well. I've been exploring all sorts of other options, but the itch I had was as much about room positioning as the amps themselves, and having switched around to a near-field monitor set-up with a wider distance between the speakers the Naims work very nicely. I recently bought some Unison Research amps which are cleaner, more extended, and more dynamic, but they don't gel with my vinyl set-up (I think it's my phono stage), so the Naims are back, at least for now, and I'm glad I didn't sell them because its reminded me how much I enjoy them, in spite of some limitations. I think the 202/200 sounds quite organic with the C7's; its about the right amount of power so it can do large scale orchestral when required. The lower bass and highs are rolled off, and this can lead to undue emphasis, but its actually quite a good compromise in the average domestic situation. A previous post about bass issues in average sized rooms was very pertinent here. (I should also qualify my previous post about 'room issues' and specify that any issues I have had have been specific not only to my room but my sources, and that I have made a lot of progress in sorting them out). There are endless and tedious debates on Supernait vs 202/200 on the forum that shall not be named. Perhaps Dave can add his opinion on which is best suited to C7's?

If you are thinking Naim-ways, do you have any chance of comparing, say, with the Croft range? I think they are potentially the best match I've heard, particularly if you can afford the 25R pre. I also think that if you are thinking of solid state integrated amps such as the Nait XS, I would highly recommend the Sonneteers (Alabaster and Orton). The Alabaster is a screaming bargain and the Orton is a bit special.

Thanks. I've seen an occasional Croft pop up in the States but not the others. In any case I'd probably then be buying without even a chance of a demo as those would not be local, and might only be available used. CORRECTION: I just found US dealers for both of these. The regulated power Crofts would be an astonishing $5600 US for the pre/power, the regular 7 would be $2800 for both. The Sonneteer would be $2800 for the Alabaster, which is within reach. No audition possible howerver.

I've been reading the Naim forum but the fights get in the way of the analysis.

If I keep this XS on demo any longer I'll probably be buying it....

I do have a massive demo planned for this weekend, including two Luxmans, two more Naim combos, a Perraux, and an LFD. Maybe an Ayre and Audio Research if there's time.

We shall see.

[Elephantears]

That sounds like a serious solo bake-off and I'd be fascinated to hear the results. Is it a perreaux 150i? I've heard this with harbeths at planet of sound in Canada and its excellent. However it's very expensive in the uk.