Fast ripping of CDs (and storage)

[Werner Berghofer]

Tim,

I build, tinker and experiment with computers […] But you cannot do that with MAC's

no, you can do that too with Macs, but why, what for? Macs are built to create and – yes – consume content in an easy and pleasing way. Are you aware that also in science, research and development Macs are more often used than other computers?

Apple and their 'must have' products IMO have changed human behaviour more than any other modern company and I'm just not comfortable with that

I fully understand what you try to say, and believe me, I share most of your feelings and expressions. But don’t forget: this is valid for Apple’s consumer products, but not for the reliable and valuable media production workhorses Apple successfully is producing since the late 1980’s.

Nobody is being forced to purchase Apple products. Is Apple to blame for people liking and buying their products?

Werner.

[Tim]

Best agree to disagree I think Werner

I'm happy being 'a PC' as you are happy being an Applehead. It won't matter whatever argument is put forward in support of Apple, as I will never like the company and I'm a stubborn old cuss who will often bite my nose off to spite my own face

[Werner Berghofer]

Tim,

Best agree to disagree I think Werner

agree. Piece, brotha!

I'm a stubborn old cuss

Guess I’m older than you. I first got in touch with electronic data processing in 1979 (was 23 years old at that time). When did you start?

Werner.

[dave2010]

Werner

I think I'm with you on this, and it seems I'm even older.

I work somewhere where they have lots of Macs and PCs. Many of the Macs will also run Windows XP. In an environment where there's really quite good technical support many of the problems which home users face are dealt with by the tecchies, but even so even they are not generally willing to "upgrade" to the latest version of Windows. Further, since they have so many machines, if something goes wrong, they either bin the machine, or re-initialise it with images stored on a server.

Home users are generally unable to adopt this approach to support, and I have found that maintaining Windows PCs in a home environment is akin to shooting your left foot off on Monday, with a likelihood that you'll shoot the right one off by Wednesday.

There are some good programs for PCs, and many gamers will perhaps prefer them, but they may know how to tame the beasts - the computers, that is.

I have worked with Macs, PCs and even Unix and Linux systems for many years, and I was sceptical of the claims of some of my colleagues who supported Macs in the early parts of this century. I'd had a Mac laptop before, which I liked at the time (it still goes, I think), but I was well aware of the problems which the Mac OS 8 and 9 systems were capable of delivering.

When I switched back to Macs for personal use a couple of years back, many of the problems which I regularly experienced with PCs just disappeared - apart from residual issues with other machines we still have. Sure, there are some problems with Macs, but mostly they just work, and the software is OK.

It's rather like having a car and being able to drive it and go places, rather than having to service it extensively every time one wants to go out. Some people enjoy fixing cars [I've got an old one which needs attention right now] while others just want them to go. Most people who use computers now should be in the latter mode.

[dave2010]

Hopefully a simple one this. I thought I'd try to find out more about tagging, and how to do it better. Now I've managed to get quite a number of CDs accessible, but actually managing them is turning out to be a bit of a pain.

I'm currently using iTunes + Squeezebox server, with Squeezepad to control the music. The limitations of tagging, as I have it now, are starting to become obvious. A lot of music doesn't appear under the "right" place(s). This must have been dealt with elsewhere - but I'll come back to this.

I thought I'd try MusicBrainz, since it was suggested earlier. I've downloaded it to my iMac (Snow Leopard). Doesn't work with CDs though, as when I put in a CD iTunes intercepts the CD before MusicBrainz Picard can get its hands on it. Even closing down iTunes does not allow MusicBrainz to get to work. The CD icon in MusicBrainz does not go bold - to allow me to click on it.

I'm hoping that I may discover rather better and useful tagging than that from the Gracenote db, but I may not.

Any suggestions?

Also, what may seem a stupid question - "are the tags stored in with the music file, or in other auxiliary files?" I don't know how tags are stored. If they're in the file, then does it make a difference which OS (Windows, Mac, Linux etc) is used, or is this only application dependent? If the latter, are there standards for different library systems, so that tags will work if the music files are moved across systems?

[Werner Berghofer]

Dave,

Any suggestions?

although this certainly may be a major pain in the rear, I prefer manual tagging. I’m very picky regarding the way titles are spelled and written, and because I’m a typographer I hate so see the very common wrong usage of ' (minute sign) and ’ (apostrophe). Since no online music title database corresponds to my requirements, I choose the manual route instead.

are the tags stored in with the music file, or in other auxiliary files?

Except for WAV files all other tags and cover art graphics are stored in the music file; the WAV format does not support tagging. Tags and cover art graphics travel without problems across various platforms and devices.

Werner.

[Stratmangler]

Why not correct the tags that iTunes pulls in before you start ripping ?
I hate iTunes and its interface with a vengeance, but it is possible to correct things first.
Don't forget to set iTunes to rip securely

[dave2010]

Dave,

Except for WAV files all other tags and cover art graphics are stored in the music file; the WAV format does not support tagging. Tags and cover art graphics travel without problems across various platforms and devices.

Werner

Seems crazy to me to have potentially large volumes of data embedded in music or video files. It'd make more sense to have tag-links which could be linked to external databases. For example, I'd like to see CD notes, which some companies (e.g Chandos) provide, but it might not make sense to have these in metadata fields. Of course it does make a difference where and how the metadata is used. In the context of a CD, if the CD notes are put in the metadata associated with an album, then this should only be a relatively small amount of extra data. If the notes are associated with every track, then there would be significant duplication. Metadata might also be used for streaming services, in which case it would need to be sent fairly frequently to be useful, but preferably kept brief enough so as not to interfere with the music or video.

Re WAV files, I thought they could be tagged, though aren't perhaps normally. I remember a few years ago a work colleague, saying he'd ripped some CDs to MP3 - perhaps for a party, but then found later that the WAV files which he managed to associate later also picked up the tags. He was surprised that this happened, but once he noticed it, found it useful. Maybe I misremembered his story, but I think that is what happened.

This forum also has a discussion about WAV tags - this posting, and the later ones - http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showpost...89&postcount=9

Re different formats, do the tags get recoded when moving (say) from mp3 to aac, or have the different formats been converging to similar standards, so that the metadata can simply be copied (with the format fields modified if there are any) when doing a format conversion?

[sburrell]

Album artwork added automatically by iTunes is stored in a cache file and not embedded into the file. To embed the artwork, delete the automatically downloaded one and add your own artwork manually.

[Werner Berghofer]

Dave,

Seems crazy to me to have potentially large volumes of data embedded in music or video files.

compared to the average overall size of a lossless audio file, the additional size of tags and cover art with dimensions of 1000 × 1000 pixels is peanuts :-)

It'd make more sense to have tag-links which could be linked to external databases.

Of course it would, but on the other hand I fear this would tremendously complicate the process of moving audio files between different computers and audio devices.

Re WAV files, I thought they could be tagged

Well yes, WAV files can be tagged, but the metadata is not embedded in the audio file itself, but stored in various supplemental library files which reside locally on the computer. Therefore metadata usually is lost if copying the WAV file to another computer or device. Please check Computer Audiophile’s thread WAV file tagging and artwork in iTunes for detailled information.

Werner.