Why do you need a speaker crossover - discuss

[nat8808]

Replacing a tweeter like this will always make the speaker sound different.

Whether the difference is an improvement or not is purely down to the preferences of the listener.

True, but I think you should just try it out and see if it is an improvement or not and not get caught up in thought experiments that scare you into inaction.

Afterall, I can change the treble of the sound just by leaning a bit forward or back in my sitting position or repositioning the speakers - the room has more effect I would think than the tweeter per se.

[nat8808]

Did I address you or initiate contact with you - no, you initiated it.

WRONG! You invited everyone in the forum to discuss why you need a speaker crossover.

This isn't your forum so, no, it is not up to you to invite us to talk to you - we can all join in when we want on any thread. That's how it works.

You asked the same question re-worded at least 3 times with me replying that it was either irrelevant (IMO) or I gave you the answer I wished to give.

Exactly.

I wanted nothing more than to understand where you are coming from and to eventually come away from the thread a little more enlightend.

Instead, you refuse to enter into any converstion, either defensively dismissing genuine questions as people starting fights or you give short or vague answers and then complain that people aren't listening to you.

It just seems to show a contempt for anyone joining in on the thread who is actually wanting to discuss anything.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

WRONG! You invited everyone in the forum to discuss why you need a speaker crossover.

This isn't your forum so, no, it is not up to you to invite us to talk to you - we can all join in when we want on any thread. That's how it works.



Exactly.

I wanted nothing more than to understand where you are coming from and to eventually come away from the thread a little more enlightend.

Instead, you refuse to enter into any converstion, either defensively dismissing genuine questions as people starting fights or you give short or vague answers and then complain that people aren't listening to you.

From the start in post 133 it has just been a troll.

It just seems to show a contempt for anyone joining in on the thread who is actually wanting to discuss anything.

More crap.

I chose to start the thread - you chose to interrupt it and you are still doing it.

I am still waiting for you to actually contribute to the thread with an expressed opinion instead of always directing posts at and against me and my opinions. If you really wanted to discuss something you wouldn't have posted the way you did. It was just an exercise in trolling for conflict.

From entering on post 38 it has just been a troll

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Once again, anyone wishing to discuss the subject and not me

[nat8808]

More crap.

Thanks! That's nice..

I chose to start the thread - you chose to interrupt it and you are still doing it.

I chose to interrupt it? I asked some questions about whether your assumptions about cross-overs in speakers could be attributed to your own taste and not a general truth. That interruption was part of the discussion.

I am still waiting for you to actually contribute to the thread with an expressed opinion instead of always directing posts at and against me and my opinions. If you really wanted to discuss something you wouldn't have posted the way you did. It was just an exercise in trolling for conflict.

I don't have an opinion as in my experience of speakers neither way of doing things has the edge over the other and of course one cannot proove that speakers with crossovers could sound even better because they would have to use different drivers.. nor vice versa - it would only be a thought experiment and I'd rather judge by listening rather than theorising.

To actively ask people to fall on one side or the other is surely inviting confilct is it not? I thought you wanted discussion not conflict?

From entering on post 133 it has just been a troll

You've confused me with this sentence - the post I'm quoting is post 133.. was your post a troll? Anyway I'm sure it's not important.

[nat8808]

Once again, anyone wishing to discuss the subject and not me

Ok, I'll try (like I have been!).

So why can't you do the same thing by selecting appropriate or more suitable drivers, or mechanically altering the driver cone to tailor the response i.e. doping.

Because mechanically altering the driver may change the sound it produces to the same extent (but in a different way) as would adding components to a cross-over.

Will it not just depend on what you want to achieve?

There are many super-duper expensive, highly researched drivers out there. The companies that make them are chasing some aspect of driver performance and their answer is still a driver that requires a cross-over.

If a better driver will always be one that uses mechanical bandwith limiting then wouldn't these driver manufacturers have also come to that conclusion?

I would have thought from this that some aspects of driver sonics cannot be easily achieved by the compromises that come with mechanical bandwith limiting.

Everything in physics is a compromise afterall..

[pure sound]

In answer to the OP; for high quality, full range reproduction you need a 3 way system (at least). Whether driven actively or passively you will therefore need a crossover.

For a non full range system, then you can get away with a single driver. My Hacker Sovereign II radio makes a very nice & enjoyable sound with a single AlNiCo powered Goodmans Elliptical driver. I've also heard & owned engaging back loaded horns with Lowther & other drivers. But a complete solution? I don't think so. I don't really like asking any driver to cover more than 3-4 octaves.

There is scope to address some driver resonance by mechanical means. It isn't a free lunch though. For example I'd suggest that a speaker like the ES14 suffers as much by the nature of its cone as it benefits from the absence of a crossover feeding it.

All imho. YMMV

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Ok, I'll try (like I have been!).



Because mechanically altering the driver may change the sound it produces to the same extent (but in a different way) as would adding components to a cross-over.

Will it not just depend on what you want to achieve?

There are many super-duper expensive, highly researched drivers out there. The companies that make them are chasing some aspect of driver performance and their answer is still a driver that requires a cross-over.

If a better driver will always be one that uses mechanical bandwith limiting then wouldn't these driver manufacturers have also come to that conclusion?

I would have thought from this that some aspects of driver sonics cannot be easily achieved by the compromises that come with mechanical bandwith limiting.

Everything in physics is a compromise afterall..

Everything asked has been answered already in the thread. Once again just read it.

And with that you can talk to yourself.

Anyone else, *who has read the thread* and doesn't want to continually repeat, like to discuss anything.

[Marco]

Nat and Richard, for goodness sake, give it a bloody rest!!

Do neither of you possess the skill to bite your lip and back off and simply agree to disagree, in a debate, when neither side is of the same way of thinking, rather than go round and round and round and round, in a never ending pointless and circular argument??

Now, either learn this skill very quickly, or I'll simply lock this thread and BOTH of you will be out for a week!!

Richard, you'll have to learn to have more tolerance and patience and stop insulting people, calling them trolls and telling them they're talking crap, when they're simply disagreeing with you, or perhaps not understanding the point you're making properly.

Now, I don't want any back-chat on this either, so simply accept what I'm telling you and act on it, or any back-chat will simply be deleted and the thread locked.

I trust that I've made myself CRYSTAL clear!

Marco.

[nat8808]

Nat and Richard, for goodness sake, give it a bloody rest!!

Do neither of you possess the skill to bite your lip and back off and simply agree to disagree, in a debate, when neither side is ever going to agree, rather than go round and round and round and round, in a never ending pointless and circular argument??

Now, either learn this skill very quickly, or I'll simply lock this thread and BOTH of you will be out for a week!!

Richard, you'll have to learn to have more tolerance and patience and stop insulting people, calling them trolls and telling them they're talking crap, when they're simply disagreeing with you, or perhaps not understanding the point you're making properly.

Now, I don't want any back-chat on this either, so simply accept what I'm telling you and act on it, or any back-chat will simply be deleted and the thread locked.

I trust that I've made myself CRYSTAL clear!

Marco.

Sorry Marco.. I just find it all very very frustrating!

I don't have anything to disagree about, at all.. I have no opinion either way, I promise!

I'm trying to learn if or why mechanical alterations don't change or compromise the sound too. I'd welcome anyone else to answer too to enlighten me.


Am I going crazy ... what's going on?

I think I'll have to go and read some discussions on DIYaudio instead now my curiosity has been aroused.