Why do you need a speaker crossover - discuss

[Marco]

Let's calm down, guys...

Andrew, I think you misinterpreted Richard's earlier post, when he was talking about himself, rather than the person who designed the Epos speakers

I don't think there was any malice in what Andrew wrote, Richard, just simply a misunderstanding.

Marco.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

The amps are fine, I just need to give Nick the rest of the necessary to buy the chassis etc. All the iron is bought, which was the major expense- ironic really, given they are OTL amps!

Hopefully in the next couple of months...

OTL amps best of luck.

[Marco]

I'd like to hear those, Ali, when they're finished

Marco.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Let's calm down, guys...

Andrew, I think you misinterpreted Richard's earlier post, when he was talking about himself, rather than the person who designed the Epos speakers

I don't think there was any malice in what Andrew wrote, Richard, just simply a misunderstanding.

Marco.

A misunderstanding that gave him the chance to create conflict again. FFS how many time have I seen it across how many forums. It is like having a stalker.

[Marco]

Richard, I think that on this occasion you're reading Andrew wrongly, based on the ill-feeling between you, as a result of the confrontational relationship you've had for some time.

It was just a simple misunderstanding, born from the tendency both of you have to see things in each other that aren't there, due to the above.

Anyway, let's leave it there now please and return to the main thrust of the discussion - churz!

Marco.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Robin Marshall designed a speaker without crossover. I have designed and have been refining a speaker without crossover, I did mine by ear - as far as I know Robin Marshall could have used a steam driven lollypop to design his, I don't bloody know and I don't bloody care - end of!

I am very happy with mine and may be even happier if I refine them more. The prototype cabs have just been doubled in price by the fabricator (they are 20mm black acrylic) so apart from the couple of sets of cabs I have here I very much doubt they will go into production. So I am not chasing any sales. £800 for a pair of cabinets means they will end up too expensive, unless I just make some for the fun of it.

I was hoping this thread would come up with something that fired up the grey matter on to another lateral line I hadn't explored

[technobear]

Why do you need a speaker crossover?

I don't need one

In so far as I am concerned, the only function of a crossover is to protect the tweeter in designs where a tweeter is necessary (as already noted).

I can think of one multi-way design that has no crossover whatsoever though. It comes from PHY-HP in France. The tweeter is a piezo unit with a small paper cone and requires no protection capacitor.

There are now quite a few driver manufacturers making full-range drive units that are also sensitive and so capable of satisfying in full the two most important criteria for any loudspeaker design, those being absolute coherence and realistic dynamics.

None of them have a flat frequency response but this is not important as it only matters to people who are obsessed with measuring everything. It is not required for realistic music reproduction (the music is already coloured in any case by the venue in which it is performed). The brains of normal people are not in the least bit bothered by a little frequency colouration and would never notice it unless it is pointed out to them.

Perhaps surprisingly, a flat frequency response is not required for movie reproduction either. The two most important criteria for that 'being there' feeling are as stated above - coherence and dynamics.

Of course there are limits to how far the frequency response can drift from the ideal. Nobody likes the Lowther quack of old (current Lowther drivers are very good) or a honking horn. Equally offensive are dome tweeters that are not correctly damped and make female vocals and electric guitars sound like nails down a blackboard.

Given the above, my choice of loudspeaker will come as no surprise. The Zu Druid uses a wide-band driver and a supertweeter with only a single capacitor and a high quality resistor to set the tweeter level. It is coherent. It is sensitive. It is dynamic. It starts and stops when it should both at high levels and at low levels. It sounds more real than any other speaker I have heard anywhere near its price and a long way above.

I used to think that I would never be able to afford the quality of sound that I have now. I take my hat off to Zu Audio. They didn't start out to create a speaker with high WAF or small size or a flat frequency response. They set out to create a speaker that would play music and make it sound real and do it at a real world price. They succeeded.

*dons flame suit*

[Ali Tait]

OTL amps best of luck.

Not a conventional OTL though, in this instance the anodes of the GM70's are directly coupled to the electrostatics. Nick built a breadboard prototype using 813's which sounded amazing, in many ways the best sound I've ever heard. The proper version will be much better.

[MartinT]

In so far as I am concerned, the only function of a crossover is to protect the tweeter in designs where a tweeter is necessary (as already noted).

Many crossovers are more than that: they exist to prevent the driver from reproducing frequency regions where their distortion and/or phase characteristics are undesirable. Effectively, the crossover keeps them in the region where they work predictably.

[nat8808]

Could it be Richard that you are tuning by ear a speaker with no cross-over that satisfies your own preferences and you are happy with the results..

.. but should you have had other preferences you would be finding it very difficult to come up with something satisfactory?

Are you saying that you think you can create ANY flavour of speaker by adjusting the mechanical properties of the drivers?