And so the next major audiophile engineering challenge is, err, well what?

[Hozepipe]

You have hit the nail right on the head. I stand by what I said

"The closest approach to the original sound"

The purpose of the project is to recreate that original experience, but my approach only holds for music that has an existence apart from electronics; what you say is true for music that begins in the electronic rather than the acoustic domain.

Brian, do you mean electric or electronic? Just want to clarify.

[Marco]

LOL. I wasn't referring to that; I was referring to this:

What about a test that measured listening behavior - something that's a lot less subjective and can be easily measured without pressurizing the victim...

Who do you think you are, Barack Obama?

Marco.

[Marco]

Who is Gareth?



I neither said nor implied that. I did say that such persons should be selected as those best qualified to form a panel make a judgement of the accuracy of a system's presentation, because they would know more intimately the sounds to be imitated.

Sorry, Brian, I got your name mixed up - as an administrator it's difficult to keep track sometimes of the names of all the new members!

That's fine, I accept that. It's just how some of your posts were coming across.

Marco.

[Hozepipe]

LOL!

(Damn you didn't fall for my trap! )

I'm just crap at spelling, always have, always will.... be. Actually, I DO have an excuse - OS X spell checking is always in bloody american. It always wants to correct things like 'colour' (like it's telling me now with a red squiggly line). I'm being Americanized without even knowing it!

[Marco]

Haha... I thought you were using Americanisms on purpose just to be different!

No worries, just be yourself and worry not about the bollocks I write

Marco.

[Hozepipe]

Will do.

[tfarney]

This is jolly exciting isn't it

I can sympathize with both sides, Marco and Tim you both make good arguments.

I have a question for Tim though. I actually agree with you that most won't hear a difference in a blind test. I doubt I could, certainly not in an unfamiliar system.

What about a test that measured listening behavior - something that's a lot less subjective and can be easily measured without pressurizing the victim, I mean subject, and skewing the data? Lets just use Audiophiles and Audio Engineers as subjects to give the best chance of getting a positive result. Over a period of a few weeks say (a very expensive and improbable test, but also hypothetical so its free) measure how often and for how long each individual listens to the system as a measure of their satisfaction/enjoyment of it, half of the time with and half without the component change. Not forgetting to use a placebo control group where no change is made over the period. This would, in theory give you an objective measure of enjoyment that the system provides.

Do you think that this would be a fairer, more accurate test? It would show more conclusively any statistically significant difference between the component change group and the placebo group.

It sounds good to me. Short-term listening. Long-term listening. As long as what is tested is the listening, it is tested blind, and the results indicate what can and cannot be heard, I'm good. I'd not only love to see it happen, I think it is an abdication of responsibility on the part of reviewers and manufacturers to not make it happen.

Tim

[Labarum]

Brian, do you mean electric or electronic? Just want to clarify.

By "electric" I guess you mean something like an electric guitar - it has no acoustic resonator, but depends on an electromagnetic pickup to pass its vibrations to an electronic amplifier, and thence to loudspeakers; and by "electronic" you mean something like a Clavinona or a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theremin where there are no mechanical or acoustic vibrations at all and the oscillations begin in the electronic domain.

Why do you ask? It makes no difference. Neither type of instrument has a usable acoustic output that can have a musical use apart from a loudspeaker or a pair of headphones.

Hammond Electric Organs generated their tones by revolving disks close to pickup coils that could be moved closer or further away from the mechanical source of the wave - modern electronic organs can mimic the sound and the control mechanisms of such draw bar organs. But, for the purposes of this discussion it makes no difference - nether instrument makes music without a loudspeaker; and both are, in effect, electronic, because an electronic amplifier is needed.

Modern digital organs are fabulous instruments and can mimic a fine pipe organ with remarkable accuracy - it is always the loudspeakers that let them down -moving air accurately in a large space is incredibly difficult.

[Filterlab]

LOL!

(Damn you didn't fall for my trap! )

I'm just crap at spelling, always have, always will.... be. Actually, I DO have an excuse - OS X spell checking is always in bloody american. It always wants to correct things like 'colour' (like it's telling me now with a red squiggly line). I'm being Americanized without even knowing it!

Turn it off then.

You know you can download the OED and implement it into the OS core dictionary.

[Labarum]

Sorry, Brian, I got your name mixed up - as an administrator it's difficult to keep track sometimes of the names of all the new members!

Marco.

Accepted, Marco. I was scanning up an down the thread trying to find a contribution from Gareth!